I remember talking to this one chick one time, I asked her what she thought about hunting. She said that she didn't like the idea of hunting because she didn't want to think that she was responsible for animals being hurt. We ate dinner together regularly, and she was definitely NOT a vegetarian. I wanted to shake her and scream "ANIMALS ARE BEING HURT/KILLED EVERY DAY TO FEED YOU! WHY DON'T YOU GET THAT!?!?!"
Anyways, this pops in to my mind because of this great video I just saw!
http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powe…
I was watching this while eating dinner. The lady (a neural scientist) in it is describing how she experienced having a stroke. She then has an assistant bring a REAL HUMAN BRAIN on stage, which she proceeds to grope and show off. This example, together with her description of self actualization just hit me in the face, and I paused to consider where the chicken I was eating had come from.
Now, I'm not a tree hugging animal right crazy peta freak, and I have seen the videos of the places where they make the animals, but it just struck me of the disconnect between what I associated as delicious dumpling goodness and what was actually cut up chicken corpse. It's obviously not a major insight in and of itself, and I have had it before, but the disconnect was just so blatantly vivid then, IT WAS AMAZING! I went from eating a plain old dumpling to ravaging the corpse of a living being and grinding its essence between my teeth. Very intense. I gained so much more appreciation for that chicken right then.
Now, this all may seem random as all hell, and normally, I would agree. HOWEVER... I was also reading up on Ray Dalio, leader of Bridgewater Associates. He was discussed in the other thread on his firm, because they have some pretty unconventional practices and principles for managing their people. Turns out that Dalio practices "transcendental meditation," and that he employs self actualization techniques as a way to better run his firm. He meditates using this method EVERY DAY, and he applies this sort of method to his firm, and it is one of the most successful hedge fund in the world... I sense a connection.
Given that they are also amongst the best funds out there though, I think that there is probably something to be said about his techniques. He addresses every little problem head on - its fucking amazing. Now, the chick I was referencing earlier. She was a zombie, and she did not appreciate the true nature of what was going on around her. Everyone is a zombie, and we live in a huge fucking zombie creation machine - I am sure of it. Heres how James Altucher, one of my faves, describes the zombie machine:
A) Acknowledge that every day of your life the Zombie Recruitment Machine is trying to brainwash you. Just like when we were kids we believed in Santa Claus and how George Washington chopped down the Cherry Tree, now as adults we’ve been trained to believe in much more dangerous and insidious ideas. Being aware that you need to question everything is commandment number one, including, by the way, questioning what I’m saying to you right now.And then on top of the brainwashing we suffered in schools, from our parents, from our friends, from society, there’s the 10,000 ad impressions each day that hit the periphery of our eyes and further tries to tell us what little intricacies of life will deliver goodness and happiness to us. We can’t even begin to be happy until we at least acknowledge that SOME brainwashing has occurred.
B) Who brainwashed you? Parents, friends, teachers, government, media, entertainment, advertising, the education system, the banking system, and organized religion. In that order although they are all interrelated.
It’s not their fault. And there’s no reason to be angry at them. They were brainwashed also. Everyone is just trying to survive the best way they know how. And there’s been generations of mental programming combined with now trillions of dollars of advertising dollars that keep everyone in line. It’s a massive recruiting machine that tries to keep us from our true happiness by redefining happiness in various ways that are inaccurate and even harmful.
Does anyone on here practice meditation? I think the only way to get over this is to question every practice we have and to try to step back as much as possible. Meditation, I think, could be an immensely important tool for doing that. I think that Dalio exemplifies a method of stepping back from shit, and being able to see things in a different perspective. Talk about thinking outside the box. Am I full of shit?
No, I don't think you're full of shit. Introspection and broad perspective are rare. If meditation helps you get there, great. I also think travel is a great way to gain perspective...I realize I am a carnivore and what we do to produce a lot of the food I eat is disgusting.
When I tell people I run a website with a "monkey theme" and that I left Private Equity to do so, usually it confuses them. To me, it's a no-brainer. I love WSO and I love waking up every day trying to think of new ways to make the community better...but I do recognize I've also been brainwashed in many other facets of my life. So many minutia influence us on so many levels that it is tough to truly step back (especially when so many people are following a similar path -- career and personally).
but what do i know...just trying my best to survive like James says...
Wait, I am confused. Some chick told you she didn't like hunting and you went into this philosophical mantra?
Just agree with whatever she say, bust out the shots, and DP her.
I wish I could reach epiphany this way too!
Ant, I had an epiphany too...
http://www.youtube.com/embed/5yGJGTjV2WE
It's a pretty damned good epiphany to have!
Wait... or was the epiphany to sell my soul for a doughnut and not finish it...
http://www.youtube.com/embed/X3ZcZ2h4Ths
Oh well... having the two epiphanies definitely helped me out!
Thank you , may I have another.
That was actually amusing. "Shit." "Right." "Alright, here puss puss puss puss."
Not sure what eating meat and meditation have to do with each other unless we're talking esoteric Hinduism, but you sound reasonable. Any form of meditation or introspection is usefull, I use excercise as a meditation to settle my mind and a lot of people use yoga. As for People Eating Tasty Animals, the majority of people don't like to think about the killing, they just want to eat their dinner and move on with life. I don't really blame them too much.
I don't know if you're a hunter, but gutting a deer can be pretty messy compared to picking up a steak at Pathmark, and most people would rather not think about it. Most food animals live in pretty filthy conditions, and the converstion ratio of grain to meet is insane, so I see the merits of those arguments ON THOSE GROUNDS ONLY. As for 'respecting all living creatures', yeah, that is unnatural and I don't buy it. Man up, pull the trigger, and enjoy your place at the top of the food chain.
When it becomes so, so will the price differentials. Trust the market. It knows best...
UFO: If you don't want to hurt animals, but you eat meat, then you are a zombie. I wouldn't have any beef (hur hur) with people like this chick if her reasoning for buying meat was your's - its easier and more practical. However, she was living a lie. I'd like her to go hunting once, and to clean an animal once, to gain an appreciation for the animals shes eating. My point is that this separation of ourselves from the truth of our place in the world exists in many mundane places of our lives, and that we can gain appreciation and insight by stepping back and viewing things from another perspective, and that I think Dalio uses this reasoning to make bank.
I personally find meditation to be a really useful tool and experience. Starting out it allows you to relax and release the general tension of life. You will most likely see that a lot of this tension is not necessary and created by the mind. Once you can essentially slow your mind down you will definitely gain some clarity. This was a strong point in my life when I just started to feel experiences in a different manner. The clarity that meditation brings starts to apply to all the moments in life and instead of constantly thinking about the past or the future you come to realize the present moment. It is very uplifting and intense at times if you continue with the practice. It also allows you to focus your thoughts on your goals and let go of the distractions so again it is pretty powerful in my opinion. Once you get into this state of mind you do feel a bit of a disconnect with what you are doing and who you are. This is kind of tough but I think it can help you find something you really love to do and just do it.
Meditation=prayer. Naturally, post 17th century "intelligence" teaches us that anything which cannot be explained so that our feeble brains can digest and comprehend it fully and clearly=bullshit.
The age of industry, technology and information has actually meddled with the enlightened advancement/growth of the first ~99.7% of human evolution. To put it in "intelligent" terms, we are the fucking tail risk. You're just scratching the surface of what pretty much every five year old back in primitive times was taught from day one. Now go find a chicken, snap that bitch's neck and feast you on some knowledge.
Humans didn't evolve as "lone wolves." Common ties and group mentality were necessary for long term survival before the conveniences of modern technology. Even now, if you have no one else on the planet you can relate to, you're as good as dead. This is fact.
It's not so much of a brainwash as it is a hard coding in our brain to reach out to others with the same ideas/ideals as us. We are programmed genetically to pick up on these ideas of others because humans were never the strongest or fastest animals on the planet. Instead we relied on our superior intellect and ability to work in groups to ensure survival
take ketamine, you'll see WAY outside the box
Meditation =/= prayer. It has largely tangible effects on the human brain.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100319210631.htm
I went dove hunting Friday evening and ripped the heads off a few that were still alive when I went to fetch them and went bowhunting for deer Saturday morning, Saturday evening, and Sunday morning. I eat what I kill and kill what I eat, bitchez.
/
Am I a huge pussy for feeling that this is bad? I know people from cultures that have been known to blend live crabs for soup, and I know that other groups of people eat live animals, so I am seriously questioning whether I am a huge pussy, or if cruelty is just commonplace.
Nope, you definitely aren't. I don't think it's morally wrong to kill animals, but at the same time there is no call whatsoever for unnecessary or gratuitous cruelty.
A Posse, are saying what I did was cruel?
Just curious.
For anyone that thinks what I did was cruel needs to learn a thing or two about hunting and animal cruelty before they think. I'll let you guys in on a few hunting secrets: Deer Hunting: when you shoot a deer/big game species and you do not kill it with the 1st shot, you slit it's throat or shoot it again, whichever is deemed necessary.
Goose/Duck hunting: when you shoot the goose or duck, if it's still alive when you come to it after 1st shot, you grap it by its head and firmly hold the head while twirling the bird in circles to break its neck.
Dove/quail hunting: when you shoot one of these and it does not die immediately after shooting it, you rip its head off.
These may seem unnecessary, but they are absolutely necessary for a quick and clean death. The alternative is to let the animal/bird suffer until it finally dies.
Holy shit. I've never hunted, so I can't speak on the subject. I could probably learn to deal with it as long as it is fast. Really brings to mind the way sheep are neutered. The most humane way/least painful way to neuter the male sheep, that has been done for thousands of years, being to just pick it up, set it down, hold it back and have someone cut the nutsack open, pop out the balls and bite them off. Mike Rowe from Dirty Jobs has a great video about it here:
I need to see this shit done. I do see things like the eating of live animals, or of things like this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/17/eating-a-deep-fried-fish_n_360…
as being undoubtedly cruel and bad. I'm still divided on how the people deals w/ the crabs. A few seconds of unimaginable pain, then nothing, or the effort of killing them all individually... Shit, I'm still on the ropes.
animals dont have souls..
Thanks for the clarification Posse. Did he eat the squirrel or kill it for fun?
Not speaking of him, if one kills an animal for fun and not for consumtion, that's cruel.
I think the issue is a rapid disconnect from ~99.9% of our genetic history/memory via modernization. The notion of "mercy killing" or "a righteous kill" (my paraphrasing of txjustin's comments) was once considered just and moral in both hunting and warfare. Things have changed and I get that, but at the same time I think the moralization of modernization has become rampant and needs to take into account that change cannot happen over night and that people are not savages simply because they partake in an activity which is no longer commonplace. My two Abes on it.
Definitely did not eat it. There was nothing left even if he was inclined to.
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