I have been a member and regular visitor of this website for a while now. I love the candidness of the posters and can definitely say that I have learnt a lot here and benefitted from it - from a personal and professional point of view.
I was not exposed to the contemporary world of business (much less corporate NY) until a few years ago. I wouldn't call myself a farm boy but I come from a much smaller town and most of my family works in simple small town government jobs. My point is that I have grown up in an environment that is very different from what I see in NY as well as this website - you know, where people spend their entire lives with one or two employers... where people marry at a reasonably early age.. for life .. WITHOUT pre-nups.
Speaking of marriage (and while I do love the hook-up stories posted here involving drugs, booze, etc), I would love to hear the community's thoughts & experiences on marriage and serious relationships. In this post I would like to get an understanding of the following when your partner come from a similar line of work (assuming high finance/other highly competitive business roles given the demographic here) versus a completely different one (say, non-profit):
1. the community's thoughts & experiences on marriage and serious relationships
2. What the primary drivers of your relationship are (money, status, sex, love, understanding, etc.)
3. the effort you put in to keep the relationship "alive"/How strong your marriage/relationship is
4. If you could do it all over again, would you? (from a relationship perspective: the person, relationship dynamics, etc.)
I am not trying to stereotype here but work is a huge part of anyone's life so it is bound to have a significant impact on one's off-work hours as well as the quality of their relationships.
It would be great if:
1. Younger monkeys could post their outlook on such things
2. mid-level to senior career professionals could post their observations/experiences
3. Ladies: would love to have your inputs on this as well.
I guess I'll start.
I'm engaged, wedding date of May 2015, but I've been with her since January of 2009.
We are pretty much an opposites attract type of couple which is something that we both feel keeps us close as there's always something new that we can learn from each other. As a few examples, she used to hate sports, but now she loves going to hockey games with me and watching me play hockey and I now know more about hair and make up than most females I know. We are both in the beginnings of our careers and I'm still in school/working. We both know each others ambitions and goals which are inline with eachothers so it's not a big deal that one is pulling the other away. We both grew up in the same small town, like yours sort of, but not so much farm life, just small in a metro area where you grow up there, then stay there to live after college sort of place. Very middle class. Our careers both are at their premium in NYC so we both are able to live here for our jobs so it's perfect. I'm going to into IB and she's a hair colorist, so we have two very different careers but no matter how many hours I work I know that she will be working harder than me. We don't put in a lot of extravagant effort into keeping the relationship alive, we just are how we are and we love each other for those reason's so it's easy peasy! Getting the other a little surprise like what I did yesterday... She came home and there was a box of Macaroons (they're her favorite) waiting for her on the table are always great ways to keep it "alive and strong". If I could do it all over again... yes.
Tl;Dr; 1. I'm for it 2. Love 3. Not a lot, but at the same time, a lot but it feels effortless. 4. yes.
much respect congratulations on your engagement
Fantastic story. How’s the marriage 4.5 years later?
Cute story... 'very happy for you! it is great that you have been together for all this time.. But it seems that you guys got together in high school when it was not really an 'opposites attract' type of situation.. Do you think you would still click if you guys were to meet today for the first time?
We weren't in high school together at all as when I graduated high school she was an incoming freshman. She was almost out of High School when we first started talking. We do of course have some things in common, but for the most part we are very different people.
The only reason we started talking was because her house caught on fire...
If that ain't a conversation starter then I don't know what is!
Congratulations on your engagement. 'wish you a very happy married life!
You need to be on the same page on substantive issues and life goals, in my opinion the whole "love is enough" line, is bullshit. I can't imagine being involved with someone without pretty strong ambition, I've just worked too hard to supplement someone else into a lifestyle I've worked my ass off to get. But that's me and not for everybody.
I agree with this, love is great but it doesn't pay the bills. there's no right way, some people love being the provider, I like it being more like a team, where we each have our roles, but then again my girl is very independent, and not all women are. we're very clear about our ambitions (mine are bigger than hers, and I'm ok with that), expectations around the house, etc. on another note: religion, politics, ethics, etc., are a huge deal to me. I couldn't date somebody who was a communist that thought lying was ok and worshipped Satan or something. that's extreme, yes, but I think knowing what matters to each party is important, because there are certain things I won't give an inch on (monotheism, politics, morals/ethics, to name a few). she's catholic, I was raised protestant, the 2 are close enough and I'll probably convert later on (my family wasn't very religious so no huge qualms with that), she's libertarian and so am I, and we both have a good moral compass. I can get past it if somebody's big ambition is to get all of the school buses to run on biodiesel, be my guest (don't disagree with this, I just don't care plus I'm long XOM), but if you don't believe in the concepts of meritocracy & telling the truth, we're going to have problems. ambitions come in all different shapes & sizes, and I think bankers forget that. it's more about hard work & meritocracy for me than it is status & money when I think about ambition. you can strive to be the best elementary school teacher in the world but you'll never make more than $50k (and that's if you're lucky), but I still respect those people and wouldn't ever hold it against my girl if she was a teacher.
tldr version
and to answer your questions
Well said. Agree on the ambition, though for me money did/does play apart of it, but only to the extent of obtaining an even better standard of living and goals/habits. But I think at the very least ambition in their pursuit (whatever that may be) is crucial, it's hard for those personalities to mix and very easy to wind up as the provider with a bit of resentment on both ends.
'totally agreed! Out of curiosity, how different are your work profiles in terms of intensity, hours worked, responsibilities, etc.?
"be my guest (don't disagree with this, I just don't care plus I'm long XOM)"
poetry
It must be hard expensing drug use into 'entertainment' for your clients with such a solid moral code :P
I'm in banking and moving on to PE, and I love the non-profit/teacher girls. I feel like they mellow me out and many in those industries have altruistic qualities, which I think are very important for a sane, LT relationship
More marriage posts?! God, as if I didn't want to drink already.
I'm 24 and in the middle of a 3 month relationship. This is my longest one yet. /freaking out here fellas
I'd be freaking out too, mines going on >5 years so I'm no stranger to these posts, just focus on closing the door when you poop for now.
I don't even remember the last time I closed the door! That and if it's not fully latched shut my dogs open the door anyways.
Something that you find a minor irritant in your partner while early in a relationship will likely become increasingly annoying over time. This is something you should keep in mind regarding the opposites attract theory.
Good point. Thanks for the input. SB'ed
One thing that also helps with the whole opposites attract thing in my relationship... Knowing your 'roles'. It's simple stuff like, she knows I don't clean so she does that, and I always take the dogs out for their walks 3x a day every day rain or shine. She likes to clean, and I enjoy taking them for walks so it works perfectly. I never get on her about not taking the dogs for a walk (I just make fun of her because they like me more) and she doesn't get on me for not cleaning.
I agree one hundred percent with you, that is what makes a relationship successful.Everyone has to play their respective roles.
Good point! So if roles seem to clash & working around them is too much of a chore, it is probably time to bail. This ties into @"DickFuld"'s comment above - "Something that you find a minor irritant in your partner while early in a relationship will likely become increasingly annoying over time"
SB'ed
I couldn't think of anything worse than being in a relationship with someone like myself?
I believe my girlfriend and I have made each other better in many areas. To start with work, her and her dad helped me get my first internship at a place I never thought I would be able to but on the flip side my mom got my girl into the family business and now she runs her own little business that she can grow and live off of in a couple of years (travel agent). We are both entering our last year of uni and she is going to be a teacher and I'll be heading back to the trading floor so we will for sure have different schedules but I think the difference helps us to be normal and more understanding of each other. To be honest I could not deal with 15-30 shit head kids everyday all day long, so I really respect that she can, and I also know she could not handle the work and the stress of a trading floor but she still encourages me to do what I love. Overall it has been an awesome 2 years and I really think I could spend the rest of my life with her. Marriage and relationships are a good thing no matter what sleepless/sexless IB analyst says
Been living with my girlfriend for about 2 and a half years, though we're still finishing up college. Definitely in the "opposites attract" camp, both career wise and personality wise. But we mellow eachother out. She's a hardcore extravert (sort of), I'm an introvert. I'm studying business, she's in nursing school. But we share a lot of similar values, hobbies, and enjoy eachother's company.
She'll work less than me, and has no problem being an entry level nurse working 36-40 hours per week, and I'm O.K. with that. I come from a family where my father married my step-mother who basically didn't work longer than 2 months out of a 12 year marriage, with zero contribution to the household in any way, and I watched them go through financial issues because of it as well as a divorce as off 2 weeks ago.
My dad said one thing that really epitomizes how I feel about this topic: You need to have a team player. Someone with a genuine contribution to the life you're sharing.
If they don't give that, they're not only lazy, but chances are they don't care about you.
Goiod point... Thanks! SB'ed
Surface level opposites don't necessarily attract or not attract. What creates attraction is a connection between two people's emotional realities, regardless of how each emotional reality manifests in life.
Care to go into detail? I'm curious to hear more about these 'emotional realities'
somewhat relevant:
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/07/the-myth-of-buying-be…
For a successful relationship you have to look at it as a partnership. You must realize that it is the two of you against the world. When you fight with your significant other you are destroying the partnership. Even if you win the fight you have lost the war. Instead of fighting you need to negotiate and work things out reasonably. Not only will this make you stronger as a couple, but it will avoid all of the fallout from fighting with each other. This is not easy to do and is not possible with just anyone. You need to find that person that you don’t want to fight with and you don’t feel the need to win a fight about something trivial. Personally I was not able to successfully implement this in my first three relationships, but after growing up a little I have successful implemented this theory in my current relationship. It is by far the best relationship I have had.
She works in PE (RE) and I am in IB (FIG M&A). We do talk about work, but since we work in different sectors we educate each other on those sectors. Both of us have a limited amount of free time, but it has not been a factor. Make sure to keep things interesting. Get her small things to let her know you care, plan a simple dinner date or outing (most girls like when you take initiative) and text her in the morning saying “have a great day.” Little things like that will go a long way.
Seeing the relationship as a partnership instead of two separate individuals is key.
This is it man, if you understand this and get past the me vs him or her, then you will most likely have a great relationship. A relationship is about partnership. If a company with co-CEOs had those CEOs fighting against each other/not getting along and not working together to advance the company, then the company would probably perform poorly or not to its fullest potential.
I think a ton of good points have been raised so far, but something that hasn't been mentioned is with regards to your (future) extended family. You should look to your significant other's parents as a good indication of what your bf/gf will look like later on down the road. If they have parents who fight a lot, don't place a lot of value on education or knowledge, are spendthrifts, are unhealthy, etc., then you might have a bad time. As well, if you're close with your family and value their opinion, what they think of your significant other should be incredibly important, too, so long as they aren't bigoted/racist.
My girlfriend's parents are both really kind, they like me a lot (I think... I hope haha) and my girlfriend has a great relationship with both of them. I know her older sister well and like her, too, though I rarely see her. I know that they value family ties and being close to their extended family, and they always invite me to their family gatherings (which have grown on me considerably).
On the other side, my family absolutely adores my girlfriend (which is a blessing and a curse). I have an older brother and sister, so growing up my sister was stuck in the middle with two brothers. When she first met my girlfriend, she pulled me aside and essentially told me I was punching above my weight and not to fuck it up. She's really close with my girlfriend and basically views her as a sister now, and my gf is going to be a bridesmaid in her wedding next year. So I am happy that both of our families get along with each other.
I dont know. This is likely true but personal habits/mindset will have a much more significant impact.
Very good point. It just takes the pressure off to prove that you made the right choice in life to the people closest to you. SB'ed.
Serious relationship - yes. Marriage - no.
I don't think relationships longer than a handful of years are optimal. That's about the lifespan of a romantic relationship. After that you just stay together because of religious/societal pressures, kids, money, stigma of divorce, laziness, resistance to change and because its familiar and comfortable. Most women will make you marry them in order to have kids and that unfortunate. I'll probably end up getting married to have kids if I have to and then get divorced once I get bored.
On work and serious relationships.... if you're just out of college, I'd advise against it. If you have a college sweetheart, I'd probably take a break for a year or two so you can just be ruthlessly selfish, laser focused on your career and hedonistic when you have the chance to.
Eventually you'll start to get sick random hook ups -- well not really, but you know what I mean -- and you'll want something more serious. I think the trick is to make sure you spend enough of your adult life beating that horse until you start to want something more... versus being in a long-term serious relationship and never quite getting that feeling that there's more to life than hooking up with randoms. Because you don't want to be the 40 year old ogling 22 year olds because he never actually fully experienced that phase of his life.
I'm saying the fact that your bathroom is seemingly self cleaning and that you don't have to find a parking spot at the Westchester train station because your wife drops you off on her way to work shouldn't be among one of the reasons you're married to a particular person.
Could relate so much to the last paragraph. SB'ed
Edit: I meant for short term, not long term relationships.
High expectations are the mother of unhapiness. As long as you and your SO can keep having fun together (libido included) and (whether or not she's a banker/doctor/lawyer/senator/etc) there's no serious contempt on either side, it'll work. Sounds simple but usually a lot harder in practice... and also she can't be full of shit like many women
No kidding! Thats why I wanted to tap into the collective community wisdom here (think avatar gaya tree style) :)
BLUF: When you know...you know
First off I am glad that you put this out there since it takes a lot of guts to put your thoughts out in the open in such a individual variable subject. From my own personal experience there is not one single formula out there that is 100% correct. Yes there are uncompromising factors but you already know those without realizing them or maybe you do. If you consume yourself with all of the factors you will end up like "Coakley" from Hall Pass or "Chazz Reinhold". I've been lucky enough to be with the same women for 20 years and she has put up with my shit. I was very lucky in the sense that as soon as I met her three weeks later I asked her to marry me and for some crazy reason she accepted. I gave it some thought recently and I narrowed down why for me it works:
We both work hard at it
When that moment comes and you meet the right person you will both know pretty quickly. I can always be wrong in your individual thoughts but I also recently saw some good advice from Bill Murray to a bachelor party:
'sounds like a fairytale - with a happy for ever after. SB'ed
You have to check out Emerson Eggerichs.
I'm recently married to my best friend. We're both considerate to one another and put each other's needs before our own.
As a result, we have harmony in our home constantly.
When we went to Pre-Marital Counseling with our Pastor, he had us watch these videos called Love and Respect.
They will change the way you act and think about your marriage or your future marriage.
Check It Out Here: http://loveandrespect.com/
In all, my framework was to write down then rank-order my values. They were:
(Note: You might spend the most time working (#7), but you might make time for and value #1 and #2 the most.)
Then I looked for another person who had the same value structure as me.
And had selfless attributes (giving, kind, loving, joyful).
After I got we got to know each other really well we started dating. Not long after we started dating we got married.
We're more considerate to one another as time goes on.
It's amazing how, if you put someone else's needs before your own, that person does the same for you.
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