Trading to IB? Any transferable skills at all?
I was wondering if there are any transferable skills from an internship on a financial derivatives desk to investment banking? It would be nice to know what type of things to focus on this summer during a trading internship in order to develop a skill set relevant to banking also.
Thanks a lot
Not really applicable
x
You gain some intrinsic skills that are applicable, things like hard work. If you were successful as a trader, especially in prop, that is a plus: you put in the work and you make money.
That being said, depending on your educational background, IB is not an exit op for traders (typically speaking). Some people that trade in the credit markets and have an MBA can make it into PE...don't know why you would try to get into IB....but I'm sure with this kind of background you would have as much of a shot as anyone from outside IB.
To those who defied the odds and transitioned into IB from trading (Originally Posted: 03/07/2015)
Team, I've been trading at a notable prop firm in New York for the last 6 months but I'm looking to transition into IB. I understand the odds are heavily stacked against me but I would like to hear the war stories from those who successfully made the move. Thanks in advance.
.
well, I don't think I'll be trading per se. I am just finishing up my freshman year and wanted to see if this summer internship will be able to transfer some skills or help during IB recruiting my sophomore or junior year. I heard that it is nice to do something finance-related to show your interest in the field and I want to be able to maybe spin my resume in a way favorable to investment banking from this internship. My question is there anything that I can do or look for so that I will be able to spin my resume and/or gain some experience relevant to investment banking?
Making the leap from Trading to IB (Originally Posted: 04/17/2013)
Hi everyone,
This is my first post here! I have been an equities/options trader with a firm in NY for the past seven years. There have been a lot of up's and down's over the years and at this point it's fair to say the equities market has dried up leaving me with no choice but to make a complete career change.
My passion has always been in trading/banking and wanted to know at age 33 is it to late to start a career in investment banking? I realize I would need to start at the analyst level but would a firm even be willing to pick me up at my age? I only graduated from a two year college receiving an associates and just looking to get honest opinions if it's a path I would even have a chance at? I have over three years as an equities analyst so not sure if that would count for anything in the IB world. I appreciate anyone's feedback, it's tough out there. thank you. Dean.
So you don't have a 4 year degree AND you're 33? That's tough. Dunno why you'd want to switch, either. If you came in as an associate, ok, but as an analyst? That's starting your career over, competing against 22 year olds with much more energy and a greater willingness to take all sorts of shit from 25 year old associates.
Yes no 4 year just a 2 year from a community college, it is tough unfortunately. Is it possible to skip/go around the analyst role at 33 and be an associate without having the analyst skills that are gained in that position? Appreciate it.
Play up the analyst position
Seeing as how investment banking analysts have no real skills. I do not think it will be a problem.
The only question is why banking over trading if you can answer that no one will care, and your experience looks good.
From Trading to IB (Originally Posted: 10/06/2012)
Hi everyone,
I am new on here and wanted to get some feedback regarding a career change. I am 33, been a successful proprietary equities/options trader for the past six years and now looking to make a career change into investment banking (my 2nd choice). The reason I am looking to make a career change is simply that the strategies I deploy on the desk are being compromised by sophisticated algorithmic systems leaving very thin profit margins which has been getting tougher year after year.
It's time to throw in the towel from trading, so I have listed a few questions below that been on my mind and if anyone can answer these it would really be appreciated.
At my age 33, do you think it's to late to jump into investment banking?
Would any firms even be interested in hiring me with a trading background for any entry IB positions?
With a trading background, what do you think would be good to show on my resume that relates to IB?
Much appreciated. ~cap2012
What did you trade? Delta-one? Vol? Long/short fundamental strategies? It depends on your background, I think. If you did fundamental equity trading or maybe delta one stuff you might make a good case for an ECM role in banking
I suggest looking into strategist type roles within capital markets
Same case, been trying for a while now: impossible. Literally impossible. There seem to be a mutual hatred / despising that makes this kind of career move close to impossible. The only thing that might alleviate your case in a banker's eyes would be an MBA.
DCM/ECM, though, could work. But it's only because they usually are considered more capital markets than IB.
Equity strategies / ECM would be your best bet.
I appreciate all of your comments, it seems an ECM (Equity Capital Management) role would be the best bet. Do any of you work or have worked as an ECM and if you can share your experience? Thanks
short answer is no. u have no experience to get associate jobs and no one wants a 33 year old 1st year analyst.
You work at one of the market makers? I know what you mean... spreads are getting tighter while volumes are dropping. From what I've seen (used to work at one myself), some of the guys go into risk roles at banks, or move to inter-dealer brokers (that's what all the laid-off deriv prop traders from the French banks are doing where I am). Otherwise, you can move to Asia... in Hong Kong the spreads on the listed options are still large relative to the US. I've been trying to make the jump at an earlier stage than you but its still very tough.
lol
well, i'm not really head over heels for trading... it's something financially related I can do this summer after freshman year and seems like a good opportunity- my ultimate goal is still investment banking... could this potentially hurt me as interviewers will wonder I did this internship when I want to do banking?
from trading to IB (Originally Posted: 06/07/2010)
I am currently interning at a prop trading firm, assisting two traders with trades on euro currency options. I am learning lots of new things every day but I am still more interested in IB. Could I have you guys' inputs on how to make the most out of this trading experience so that I can transfer some skills I learned here to my future IB work? Also, how can I leverage this experience in my future ib interviews? Thanks.
MBA.
??
I thought Illini was pretty clear, but to clarify: get your MBA. And not from the University of Phoenix.
hey, thanks for clarifying that, but as a rising senior in college, I prefer to have some work experience before any further education. And, it is an eight week trading internship. Is it so hard to switch to IB? Thanks.
Are you still in undergrad? If you're still young (e.g. undergrad or analyst) you do NOT need an MBA to go from trading to IBD.
Yes, I will be a senior this fall. Any suggestion on how to leverage this experience during my IB job interviews this fall? Thanks.
depends on where you go to school, how you network, etc. work hard at the job you have, hopefully get an offer, and then apply to IBD (or would it be IB... I don't want another lecture post) in the fall and if you don't get a gig then at least you got a back up plan (prop firm to mba to ibd)
talk about your Excel skills, maybe take one of these online courses and put it on your resume so it seems like your interested in valuation and banking
...convey that you tried trading and it wasn't the right fit for you, banking is more of what your looking for
Thanks, highflyer23. I am using of a lot of Bloomberg and using Excel to build options pricing models, would you think getting the Bloomberg certification will look on resume? And what specific good online courses are u thinking about? Thanks.
Apply for IBD in the fall and have a good explanation for your lack of an IBD internship.
I would also be interested in the 'online course' you speak of.
He's referring to the IB modeling courses, namely, Breaking Into Wall Street, Wall Street Prep, etc...
I heard some of the BB IBDs use these courses as well for their summer interns and first year analysts, is that true? How good are those online courses? Do you know where to find some solid reviews on them? Thanks a lot.
No. You're a freshman. The fact that you have this on your resume will help.
trading to mba banking (Originally Posted: 10/16/2007)
anyone know of someone to make the jump? I am talking about joining as an associate,thanks
This doesn't directly answer what you're asking, but I know a guy who was an analyst and then associate at Goldman S&T. He got his MBA at a top program and joined a PE shop.
and thinking about maybe energy banking
Do you trade energy or do you trade energy sector equities?
less money more bullshit more hours less glory.
iambateman, besides the "bullshit", the rest is definitely not allways true.
Hours?
trade energy
What about the other way round? How's the transferability of a freshman IB (M&A) internship at a Tier 2 BB to trading?
Trader to Banking (Originally Posted: 08/21/2014)
I'm a trader with 0 IB experience and want to become an analyst. Is this possible?
How many years have you been a trader? Are you in the USA or Europe? Are you at a BB? Tried networking/trying to lateral? How educated are you? (ie have you already completed a Masters - if not - you could complete a Masters and go for IBD recruitment again). Recruitment agencies are also an option.
We need more info bro.
are you european? the masters strategy works better there
Yes. I just did this. Granted my role was more analytical to begin with. Should be familiar with basic accounting and financial modeling. But don't get more wrong. It's no walk in the park. You are at an inherent disadvantage.
I've been trading at a small company in the USA 3 years right out of undergrad, make around 300k now. Willing to take a 50% or so cut to move over (I believe this is what analysts make now)
I know I could do a MFin or similar but problem is I want to go to B school a couple years from now so if I do 1 year masters + 2 years analyst I'm already 29 which is kinda too old
My understanding is BB don't even look at you if you aren't in undergrad, so I'm targeting small banks. Just don't know how to go about networking because simply applying online is probably instant ding
Lol...why do you want to switch? it's only a 50% pay discount if you end up at a strong firm with a good bonus year. If you end up at a boutique you can expect around a 60-70% discount. If you think there is no LT potential at your current position, then sure. But if you're going to apply to bschool, just rake in the money now and try when you graduate.
What kind of trader are you?
There are multiple reasons why I want the change, and I don't want to get too deep into it. Basically, I don't want to do what I do anymore (there is no LT potential as you put it), and I want "traditional" finance skills. I don't want to go into any other kind of trading either.
If I go to B school now, can I get in as an Associate? I mean I understand accountants or consultants easily make the transition but I have 0 applicable experience. I do have the knowledge though (can answer the technicals)
Full-time MSF or MBA is your only option. At your age, you should aim for FT MBA instead of MSF because you can get in at the Associate level at least and firms would be reluctant to hire you as an Analyst even if you did the MSF because you're too old
Shifting from Trading in London to IBD in New York (Originally Posted: 08/29/2011)
Hi,
Some brief context to begin. I have just started a job working as a trader at one of the top BB banks in London. It's interesting work but I am 101% certain that where I want to end up is working at a fundamental equity/credit HF. I realise now that my best shot of getting there is to start out in Investment Banking rather than Trading so I'm looking to make the switch. For personal reasons, I also want to shift from London to New York. My CV is solid, good grades from one of the best 2 schools in the UK and a masters from an Ivy League and I'm (I like to think) pretty on top of the stuff that they mostly ask about in ibd interviews (valuation, accounting, modelling and the like).
What I don't really know about and would really appreciate some advice on are whether there are many major differences in recruiting between the UK and the US? For instance, will the fact that I am already working and am far far away from any 'on-campus recruiting' hinder my chances? What is the best way to get past that barrier? Also, how can I manage the fact that I will be applying for these jobs while working? Will interviewing firms be flexible to the fact that I am working? Can I interview outside of business hours? Weekends even? Any advice coming from anyone who has made the transition from Europe to the US or anyone who has gone from Trading/Sales to Investment Banking and what you learnt during the process would really be appreciated.
Thanks in advance for your time and any help.
I think you guys are either misstating what you mean or are unsure of what "transferability" is for internships, particularly as a freshman or sophomore. Look, as an intern, its not really about what skills transfer, as much as what will be a flag to interviewers or recruiters that "hey, maybe I should check this person out." If you get a serious internship in finance as a freshman or sophomore (aka IB or S&T), absolutely no one is going to pigeon-hole or penalize you. At the very least they will respect the fact you were able to secure that type of position so young. Keep in mind that even now, most SA candidates rarely did something that high quality their first years. Does that mean it will automatically get you a job? Of course not. But it will be a talking point, and at the very least give you reasons to say, "This is why I want to do XXX.... YYY was missing A, B, C..."
Seriously, be happy you've been bestowed with such a great summer opportunity and make the best of it.
Have you considered becoming a desk analyst aka dest strategist at a high yield / distressed trading desk? This will also take you to fundamental equity/ credit shops and you just might be able to lateral from your current role.
I have thought about that option. I think of it as a sort of Plan C. My main concerns were threefold:
i. That, like the rest of the trading floor, the desk would be overly concerned on short term fluctuations rather than fundamentals ii. That the exit opps. into fundamental equity/credit, while present were not as good as in banking iii. And that they would mostly be focused on the credit side whereas my ultimate preference lies on the equity side of things
I have thought about that option. I think of it as a sort of Plan C. My main concerns were threefold:
i. That, like the rest of the trading floor, the desk would be overly concerned on short term fluctuations rather than fundamentals ii. That the exit opps. into fundamental equity/credit, while present were not as good as in banking iii. And that they would mostly be focused on the credit side whereas my ultimate preference lies on the equity side of things
Your third is the most reasonable concern. High yield analytics are not inherently concerned with short term view. It can vary from firm to firm, but most of the time they're worried about taking position for proprietary interest of the desk with a medium to long-term horizon. There are brilliant exit opportunities from the premier desks. DLJ, which is now at CS, has long been considered the market leader in HY.
I really appreciate the insight into another option that I probably haven't given quite enough thought to but, getting back to my original question, do any of you know anything about shifting from a FT job in London to a new Analyst job in NY?
Given that I need to move from LDN to NY and a lateral move within the firm would likely be limited to my current office, I still think I need to be getting back and applying to other firms so that I can make the shift in both location and area at the same time. Any advice on that process?
Hi, It's very nice that,you are looking for moving to new york,if your C.V is solid and your marks are good,then you could move anywhere very easily.And you realised that your best shot is in investment banking rather than trading.So,why are you waiting for? Go Ahead and all the best.It is the best option.
moving to canada
Anyone with any thoughts into this? My problem still stands. One key facet of the problem right now.... I need to be in NY for personal reasons, how can I get time to interview off work when I have just joined a team here in LDN...?
Sickies, ask for a holiday after 2 weeks spread over october/nov. randomly?
Thanks in advance
Transferable skills:
If you can get really good at these three things you will be twenty steps ahead of the other newbies, regardless of whether you end up in IBD or S&T.
Moving from Trading to Banking? (Originally Posted: 07/24/2016)
Hey, fellow monkeys, I am towards the end of my 1st year as an analyst in a BB, where I'm in sales and trading. It's alright and it would definitely be a nice place to be in even if I had to stay on the same desk for the next ten years. Before I started to work I had this vision of my ideal career being something I could get to enjoy very much and would actually start to love the grind at some point. However, even though I ended up pretty close to where I wanted to be for the better part of the last decade, this didn't happen.
I've been thinking over the last few weeks - if the unenjoyable grind is always going to be there, why not try to do something better with my 20s? I think I want to be a banker. The way I see investment banking is that it's something like joining the army - you get shit on for a few years by the people above you, you don't have a proper life, but you emerge out of the whole thing as a superior, more disciplined being with skills few people have.
Which brings my main question - if I want to move within my bank, how do I do it? Do I just start inviting bankers for coffee? If I get to chat with a banker how should I describe my ambitions? Is it even possible to break into IBD in a different bank (I'd much prefer to stay in mine)?
" The way I see investment banking is that it's something like joining the army - you get shit on for a few years by the people above you, you don't have a proper life, but you emerge out of the whole thing as a superior, more disciplined being with skills few people have."
No.
"You get shit on for a few years by the people above you, you do't have a proper life."
True, some managers are great, but the client demands mean they have to demand really tight deadlines. Sounds OK in theory but would you like to go out to dinner with your girlfriend / boyfriend on a Friday night, have a glass or two of wine, and then get an email dragging you back into the office? Do you want to miss your best friend's wedding because you get staffed? Can you deal with that for 2-3 years and likely even more? Because many of the exit opps that people covet here are marginally better, but aren't all that different.
"You emerge out the whole thing as a superior, more disciplined being with skills few people have."
Superior? If anything, banking culture often encourages you to be more aggressive, less patient and more frivolous. Sure, that's good if you want that, but most people in the world do not respect those qualities. Yes, you get skills, but as a junior analyst, a huge part of your day is spent editing powerpoints using firm specific software, doing research and performing errands. Not so transferrable.
I enjoy many aspects of my job, but by no means is it perfect. My team has a fantastic culture, but the inherent fact that it's investment banking means that most of us sometimes struggle a lot.
There are many reasons to do investment banking. Honestly, I'm not a fan of the exit opps line, because so many are similar to banking. Best of luck, but examine why you want to follow this path.
Best S&T Desk for Transition into IBD (Originally Posted: 11/23/2015)
Hey All,
I am wonder what S&T desk will be best for me to transition into IBD. The BB is JPM
Thanks!!
I hate this question and kind of hope no one hires you... But I think at JP if you do good work they let you switch halfway through the summer to a different FO group. I would say try to get into DCM (there are DCM groups that recruit out of S&T) or Credit trading (financial statement analysis and stuff is more relevant than macro stuff).
If you're a sophomore and couldn't get IBD then whatever but if you're a junior and someone gave you an offer with the expectation that you may come back to trade full time it's disappointing that you're asking how to leave before you even start. Trading and banking are nothing alike so you're taking up space in a really coveted program for basically no reason other than to further your own self interests.
Really interesting to be in S&T when you want banking, two totally different jobs. With that said, probably DCM ideally or if not, any sort of credit trading. Stay away from sales.
Trading to IB? (Originally Posted: 10/07/2017)
So, senior at non-target trying to get into IB, but chances of that happening are getting slimmer every day. I am exploring different options that might lead into a good Bschool or lateral into IB. I have heard of the usual Consulting/Corp fin --> Target B School --> OCR as Associate, but what about trading.
Trading for banks or for oil companies. I have very basic knowledge of trading and no knowledge of exit options for IB, BSchoo, other fields etc??
I think that would be a unique path. I'm not sure that anyone goes into trading to get recruited into IB. I assume that name brand is just as important when applying to B school. I couldn't imagine the math tests involved in trying to get into a top shop.
IB will be easy to get into if you follow these steps and are able to work a room.
Commodity trading to I-BANK? (Originally Posted: 01/20/2009)
I was just wondering what kind of skills you can acquire from commodity trading.And can it be a good jumping pad for future I-banking career?
ex. natgas, crude, power...
The understanding of market fundamentals should give you a huge advantage if you are looking to join an energy group... keep in mind that you need to put some of your own time in to stay on top of financial modeling...
Take it from someone who went in the opposite direction (banking to commodities trading). After trading commodities successfully, banking will be like watching paint dry.
Trading commodities is a hellish career, but the money is outrageous. Sling commodities for a few years and let the money you make set you up for life and then go do what you really want to do at that point. I just doubt very seriously that it will be investment banking.
Just a crusty old trader's two cents.
whats it like in commodities sales? can anyone describe the job/the pay and hours compared to equities sales?
Assumenda eveniet nisi eum et consequatur aut. Tempora aut et placeat quos voluptatem dolor nam. Earum sed earum velit non accusantium consequatur cumque. Perspiciatis et incidunt quo officiis. Ullam sint voluptate unde quis laboriosam.
Illo temporibus ut eius molestias. Consequatur rem et exercitationem dolorem harum consequatur distinctio praesentium. Excepturi omnis dolorum est dolore fugit et. Voluptatum esse eaque pariatur laboriosam recusandae amet eius.
Minus facilis minima officiis minus quas. Et ullam dolor voluptates repellendus sit nam. Ut qui qui ut aliquam unde explicabo. Quos quia nihil quia. Illo cum porro et quia cumque et ipsum.
Consequatur ipsam dolores qui consequatur aperiam sint molestias. Quidem maxime at necessitatibus dolores a eaque. Iste repellendus autem veritatis ut aut quo asperiores.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Qui eos et cumque sint et. Dolorem error qui velit voluptas.
Et optio tenetur sapiente. Esse magni officiis aut blanditiis voluptas.
Quia aut magnam dolores laborum iusto accusamus. Placeat officiis aliquid et consequatur in quia quia. Consequuntur deserunt voluptate cupiditate.
Est dignissimos mollitia impedit et ut voluptate veritatis mollitia. Non animi ab sit voluptatibus quam. Saepe inventore et voluptatem vitae ipsum soluta recusandae. Molestiae ut non quidem accusantium libero. Et accusantium vel quam porro aut necessitatibus. Dignissimos aut quis laborum et.