Public Ivy
I've read a few posts from people on here stating that they go to a "Public Ivy" school for undergrad. I'm really curious to see if everyone thinks of this as a stamp of approval or just another term thrown out there by the admissions office to boost enrollment.
For example, I go to a state school - I was first very excited and proud to be going here. The admissions office threw around this "public ivy" term like it was gold. Once I got here, zero OCR and very small finance program.
So what does everyone think? Is this just another marketing tool for a university or does it actually add value to your resume?
There is no such thing as public ivy. On second thought, maybe Cornell.
i chuckled (referring to SirTradesaLot)
ur either ivy or ur not. there are schools that are as good as an ivy league school but they still aren't "ivy". I throw schools like MIT, Caltech, Stanford, John's Hopkins, and UChicago into the similar mix. (from ivy)
i don't understand the term. the only public university comparable to the (lower) ivies is berkeley.
if the term is used for other schools it is not credible.
Why is Berkeley on such a different level than Michigan or UVA?
100% Fact
Berkeley is a lot more selective than Mich/UVA as a college, and it isn't even close for subjects in the sciences (natural and social). I think it's because CA is a huge state and they really get to take the cream of the crop since Berk rejects go to other UCs and CSUs. In terms of the business school, yeah you're right, ross, haas and mcintire are pretty close if not all the same but they're a small part of the larger school. In terms of business/law and maybe engineering for grad school, all 3 again are the same but Berk is better in virtually every other subject like anthropology, economics, linguistics, biology, etc
I know that it originally comes from some college selection book from the 80's, but as someone who has attended 2 schools mentioned in this category, I think it's dumb.
The Ivies are specifically the schools within the Ivy League. They are (more or less) small liberal arts schools, and they are fundamentally different than, say, the University of Michigan, or any big land grant university. I don't see a need to try to make a comparison.
I also hate when people use some reference to Ivy League when talking about Duke, Northwestern, Stanford, etc. They are great school but not Ivies.
Is northwestern comparable to duke/stanford for undergrad? I know the rank is good, but those other two butcher NW in terms of everything pretty much (including Wall Street Recruiting)
I just threw some names out there that tend to get mentioned in some context of Ivy...don't really care if they are on the same level or not.
NW and Duke are extremely comparable, Stanford a definitive step above them. As for Stanford/Duke "butchering" NW in terms of pretty much everything, now you just sound like an idiot.
It's a marketing tool, but usually like a random magazine or something declares the school a public ivy. They don't just call themselves that lol. With more people going to college, state schools are getting more competitive/prestigious
Dangerously high levels of Butthurt going on in here.
It's worth all the monkey shit in the world.
If you want to go into banking don't go to berkeley. If you want to have a superior edge on the competition, want to know what it means to work harder than anyone else, AND can develop the skills needed in finance, then it's a good school. Just don't expect OCR to get you a gig in goldmanblackkrstone. Ended up on a bb prop desk, but hours and competition are much easier to deal with than it was @ cal
1) Public Ivy is a well-know term, but too many public schools try to use it. Mich/UVA/Cal are the only public Ivies. I consider these 3 schools the flagships of the public education here in the US
2) Cal has a very low acceptance rate because application process for UC schools is the same: you fill our all forms, write essays, etc. and then just put a checkmark next to a school you want to apply to. Hence most of semi-intelligent kids in CA choose Cal in hopes of sneaking in
My comment about Cornell was not meant to be funny or insulting. http://www.cornell.edu/about/facts/stats.cfm
Identity
Public and private
Cornell is the federal land-grant institution of New York State, a private endowed university, a member of the Ivy League/Ancient Eight, and a partner of the State University of New York. It has been described as the first truly American university because of its founders' revolutionarily egalitarian and practical vision of higher education, and is dedicated to its land-grant mission of outreach and public service.
@SirTradesaLot: Ok my fault. Didn't realize this (I thought all of them were private). I thought you originally pointed out Cornell for other reasons.
There are only really 5 elite schools in the USA they are:
Here's how they operate:
Step 1: Bring smart immigrants to the university Step 2: Smart immigrants will publish novel papers Step 3: Promote the discovery as if it was ours (i.e. as if it was due to the strenght of our academic formation) Step 4: Lure a bunch of clueless american kids to pay hefty tuitions to walk around with the name of our university. Step 5: Collect the $ Step 6: Repeat
I would agree with this. I went to UChicago and have met kids from each of these other schools and they are the only schools where most kids I've met are on par intellectually with the UC kids. I'd also maybe throw Stanford on the list. I would suspect Cal Tech is up there too but have never met anyone from there so I can't comment. Although I would change up your order a little bit. MIT and UC probably have the most true intellectual heft, whereas the HYP's have more well-rounded students.
Some kids I met at UC were so socially inept I thought they belonged more in a mental health institution than an elite university.
This cracked me up..
I would make a small change. U Chicago gets almost no love from IB or MBB.
But, it's better known on a world wide scale.
Lol, I love these threads. Keep calm and carry on, folks. Deep breaths.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iO5-ic0Ug4
I'm at a "public ivy" and as far as OCR is concerned my buddies and I for SA are going to Goldman, JP, MS, WF, BAC, Baird, Piper, Lazard, Jeffries, Suntrust, UBS, Barclays and those are just the people I personally know. Everyone on this board wants to tell you that its all about a top 3 school and then Goldman or MS and if you aren't at one of those then you are a failure, but there is such a thing as public ivys and you can get into a great firm from a state school.
You'e not at UNC are you? Also FWIW, I believe the term public Ivy originated from Richard Moll in his book Public Ivies. The original eight he identified were WIlliam and Mary, Miami U (OH), University of California campuses, Michigan, North Carolina, Texas, Vermont, and UVA. (Found from going to wikipedia and looking up "public ivy")I'm also a little more inclined to believe that networking and the ability to "sell" oneself are more important to landing an analyst spot than where you go to school especially once you get to a certain tier of school, and no that tier of school is not exclusively Ivy league.
At Binghamton, and would go to UNC any day over it.
I think you have a chance to get into a great gig regardless of the school you go to. But I hate the term public Ivy. All schools have kids capable of doing banking. Banking itself isn't the hard part. Breaking into banking is. What I hate about the term 'public Ivy' is that it implies that these schools are academic power houses, which isn't the case. Hell, the gap between the top half of the Ivies and the bottom half is pretty significant.
But that doesn't mean that non-Ivy/top ten schools are bad places to recruit. I would take a Ross grad with a good personality over a UChicago econ grad more often than not because I did econ at UC and know most kids there are wound too tight and too socially awkward to succeed in banking. That doesn't mean I think UMich is a better school than UC. Not even close. But banking is more how hard you work than how high your IQ is.
LOL I know where you go to school. Your friends did not get those SA positions from OCR though.
I personally think the term "public ivy" sucks. You may be getting a great education and internship, but the bottom line is that the schools that like to call themselves "public ivys" are much lesser schools than actual ivys. I'm not saying you can't do well out of one of these schools (getting into BB IBD isn't as hard as people on this site like to make it sound), I'm just saying (fairly) that the caliber and prestige of the "public ivys" are not comparable to actual ivys.
Anyway, I do agree with you that it is not all about being from a top 3 or even top 20 school. It may be easier for those people to make it to IB, but not having OCR just means that you actually have to network to get in.
Work hard, network, repeat.
I briefly went to one of the original 8 public ivies. I have not read it, but I think it has more to do with the experience more than anything else. The school I went to for example has an ideal campus (old colonial revival buildings) and strong academic reputation (though not quite on par with ivies). The majority of the students dressed in the stereotypical ivy look and were mostly of upper middle class families. It's definitely a stretch to say these schools are on the same level as ivies, but they are nice schools none the less and offers students a somewhat similar college experience.
Its so strange how a lot of people on these boards don't realize that the only reason Ivy League schools are Ivy League schools is because they belong to the Ivy League athletic conference. I suppose you can call Mich and IU "Public Ivies" if you for some reason really want to, but they're in the B1G so why not just call them what they are?
Its really strange how people constantly feel the need to point out that Ivy League refers to the Ivy League Athletic Conference when everyone knows that. Ivy has come to represent more than just an athletic league but rather an academic standard for schools to be compared to. So speaking for everyone that finds your smug insult to our intelligence annoying...we get it, Ivy League is a conference of schools.
Woah easy does it, that comment really pushed some buttons on you huh?
Haha so does this mean you agree with my statement or are you being sarcastic? Either way I now know how to "code" font sizes so thanks +1
BOOYASKEDADEEE!!!!
It's a stupid term that way too many universities have appropriated in order to fool applicants.
The only way to get an accurate picture of a school's recruiting is to read its career services reports. And if they don't release such reports or don't go into much detail, that's a warning sign.
all you guys who repeatedly talk about prestige and rankings of schools nonstop make me want to harikari myself
the term public ivy is just meant to say a very solid public school where you get a solid education for a great price
IE
THINGS OTHER THAN FINANCE TOO
http://www.youtube.com/embed/NjVugzSR7HA?feature=player_detailpage
I think public ivy does the state schools that call themselves public ivies a disservice. In particular, it is an insult to top engineering programs like UC Berkeley, UT Austin, UIUC, and Georgia Tech when they outrank all of or the vast majority of the ivies and generally do better placing candidates into Google, Microsoft, and the various HFT firms.
However, you asked this in the context of MBA programs, given the forum this was posted in. In that case, aside from maybe UC Berkeley and Michigan, there really aren't better MBA programs than what you find at the private schools.
Not hating, just pointing out the facts. For grad school, I definitely want to go to an ivy though, recruiting into finance was hell and I'd like to avoid going through that again.
public ivies: Berkeley, UVA
all others are false.
Public ivies imply Berkeley, Uva, Umich & UT Austin. Some ivies though get inferior IB recruitment in comparison to the public ivies.
Isn't the term 'public ivies' pretty much a marketing play? Eh.
The thing I hate about WSO is that there are not nearly enough rankings of things
The term "Public Ivy" seems more like a distinguishing factor to differentiate those schools from public schools, rather than group them with actual Ivy League schools. While there's an obvious difference between "Public Ivy" schools and actual Ivy League schools, there's also a difference between "Public Ivy" schools and random state schools that have "eastern" in front of their name.
I go to a "Public Ivy". Obviously it isn't as easy or expected for us to break into IB, but it's definitely possible for someone with that goal, people still do it. Most of those going into finance/business end up as a F500 analyst, doing an FLDP, big 4 (for accounting), or something of that level. No, not usually IB, but we aren't all willing to sell our one life for money, or spend 50k/year on tuition.
All that being said, the term has been overused for marketing, and "Public Ivy" schools are a lot more like regular state schools, as they are, than Ivy Leagues. Those going to an Ivy League school most likely just feel threatened by the term, as it could diminish their overpriced degree's value. If you spend your entire life trying to earn the Ivy League stamp, you tend to get combative about others getting it as well.
Ivy League - Top 10~ Public Ivy - Top 25-50~
Meh.
It's a meaningless marketing term. I find it a little embarrassing / cringe-worthy when people use it as if it means something. If your school can't stand on its own then ... yeah.
Why is everyone getting their panties in a bunch?!
Sure, the Ivy League was originally just an athletic conference, but as the schools in the Ivy league range from very good to elite academically (and due to its athletic failings - with the exception of Harvard in this year's NCAAB tourney) - it is now commonly used to refer to a bunch of old, prestigious schools.
So as the term is used (misused?) to mean academically very good schools, others such as MIT, Stanford, Chicago are often considered "Ivy-level" schools (even though they are actually better overall than majority of the Ivies).
Sure, it all started as a marketing gimmick (to appease to the "Ivy=elite" mindset) - but all Public Ivy means is a bunch of public schools with the academic prestige, recruiting opportunities and brand recognition comparable to the Ivy/Ivy-level (translate: very good, if not elite) schools. Berkeley, Michigan, UCLA, UVA etc. fit the bill.
So to the OP: if a no-name public school claims to be a "Public Ivy", no recruiter at Goldman or BCG is going to say, "Oh, public Ivy?! This kid must be smart! We should interview her". But most schools that are often put under the category of Public Ivy already have big enough brands and prestige-level to be considered "good-enough" for most top companies (and will probably give you comparable, if not better opportunities than say... Cornell or Penn sans Wharton).
Also, it has nothing to do with school culture. Large public schools will never have the same vibe as ancient, small liberal-artsy private schools. If you want the Ivy "vibe" outside an Ivy, you'd be better off going to schools like Georgetown or Boston College.
I don't know what is worse: claiming your uni is a Public Ivy or knuckleheads who have never attended an Ivy claiming that there are different levels of academic rigor within the Ivies.
Who gives a shit where you went to school?! Bust your ass, get good grades, and network. Statistically, are you better offer from certain schools? Yes, but that's doesn't mean you can't get to where you want to go.
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