From a target: My major matters? Philosophy or Economics?

So I am going to be a sophomore at a target, "HYP-level" school. Ultimately, I want to go into hedge funds, preferably macro. I find their work--and macroeconomics--to be very exciting, and can see myself actually enjoying it. However, I also love Philosophy. I love doing it and think it is relevant to just about everything, financial markets and trading included. I also love macroeconomics (don't care for micro), but I feel as if a little knowledge goes a long way in economics. That said, however, I realize that most hedge funds probably do not share my views on the universal relevance of Philosophy, and I am worried that majoring in Philosophy would make it almost impossible to get a job in macro HF's. If I were to major in Philosophy, though, I would minor in Economics, specializing in monetary and international economics. And other parts of resume would show that I have had an interest in and aptitude with financial markets for some time (I have been following markets/investing since the 7th grade).

So, here's my basic question: if I were to major in Philosophy/minor in Economics at my target school--and have a resume that demonstrates interest in financial markets and their behavior--would I stand a chance at getting a job in the investment side of a global macro HF? I know hiring at these types of places is very competitive and far from a guarantee, but just want to know if I would still have a shot if I followed this path.

Apologies for the long post,
SlyGuy

 

Common question with the same answer every time (which is okay, I and many others have asked this before).

Major in what you are passionate about and interested in. Not every tool on Wall Street has an undergrad in Econ or Finance. I will say that the Econ minor won't hurt any but don't do away with four years of school to pad a resume.

A woman in our Finance Club did an internship at JPM this summer and she is doing a music history major. In short, as long as you can convey some competence and understanding in capital markets through your resume and interviews then it should not matter what your major is (as long as you are passionate about it; to reiterate).

 

does not matter. u not gonna get in from school most likely. They do not pick you based on school education but based on what you learn in the first years at e.g. a bank or a institution such as the World bank. The question should therefore rather be: can you get there with the degree?

 

I went to a similar prestige-level UG school and went straight to a well-known global macro shop. Lots of employees and new hires did study economics. One of my closest friends majored in philosophy and my boss at one point had a PHD in philosophy. In short, it doesn't matter as long as you can convey intelligence, an interest in finance, and an eagerness to learn.

 

Agree with yahoo. I majored in phil at Dartmouth, had some good quantitative course work and landed a SA and FT gig doing banking at a BB. As long as you have a convincing story for why you're interested in banking/HF, you're fine.

I don't know this, but my guess is being an econ/finance/business w/e major matters more if you go to a less prestigious school. i.e. it'd be harder to get into banking/HF having majored in phil at UF...

 

Major does not matter for those schools. Just be able to explain why you chose that major, why you want IB and what, if anything, is relevant to IB in terms of the usual skill sets - attention to detail, analytical, big picture thinking, deadlines, etc. Additionally, joining an IB-type club would help as well to show your interest in the field.

Check out this article for more on picking a college major: http://www.bankonbanking.com/2009/09/27/picking-your-college-major-and-…

 

A good gpa in Econ > a good gpa in history. But if you're interested in history but want ibanking, why not major in both? Econ is only 9-12 courses at most places, and so is history. That still leaves a fair number of courses for experimenting.

 

just to clarify my situation: I'm currently a freshman at USC Marshall and while I'm having fun (parties, hot girls, rushing frat etc.) I feel my opportunities are limited so i want to transfer to a target like duke or dartmouth. I prefer history over economics but I also want to maximize my chances of securing a IBD offer.

 

Good luck transferring. Supposed to be an extremely competitive process.

Majoring in history shouldn't preclude you from interviews if your GPA is in the 3.7-3.8 range and you've attended on campus info sessions/spoken to alumni at banks to demonstrate a legitimate interest in IB.

Just be ready to explain why you majored in history in an interview. Most people who are interested in finance and don't attend an undergrad b-school will choose to major in econ because it's the next best thing and is somewhat related and relevant to finance. Majoring in history could raise a few brows, so the key is a good explanation.

Your interviews will probably be less technical than those given to econ majors. However, your answers to fit questions will be more important, and your rationale for wanting to enter IB will be more heavily scrutinized.

Overall, I wouldn't recommend majoring in history. If you must, see if you can pick up some kind of certificate/minor in finance on the side.

 

As someone who majors in History with 3.7-3.8 at H/Y/P and has a full-time offer at GS/MS (and received interviews from all BBs), I don't think you should have a problem. If anything, my major allowed me to stand out even more in a good way during the recruiting process.

 

HYP is way different from Duke & Dartmouth.

OP, I'd focus on getting in to Duke & Dartmouth first. once at Duke, you could do something like history major, econ minor, PPE certificate, history & econ double major, something like that. I think if you like history, incorporate it, but an understanding of economics and/or some exposure to some quant stuff is important too.

 

Maybe, but still, I assume the difference it would make is marginal. If you don't get an interview, it probably won't be because you chose History over Economics.

 

Doesn't matter at all, as long as you go to a target, have a decent GPA, can explain why you picked your major, and you can answer a few basic technical questions.

With that being said, although USC is a "target" because of the Finance major offered there, it will probably be tougher to get in without a Finance major. The only reasons you can get away with it at targets is because many do not offer finance as a major. So if/when you go to dartmouth and they ask " Why History" you can say how you've always loved history blah blah, but also have a passion for finance, which is why you've (presumably) crushed the technical and can do that job. Boom welcome to GS.

At USC they would probably think "well this kid can't like finance too much because he could have just majored in it" so if you decide to stay at USC I would try and pickup a finance major.

 
mrharveyspecter:

Doesn't matter at all, as long as you go to a target, have a decent GPA, can explain why you picked your major, and you can answer a few basic technical questions.

With that being said, although USC is a "target" because of the Finance major offered there, it will probably be tougher to get in without a Finance major. The only reasons you can get away with it at targets is because many do not offer finance as a major. So if/when you go to dartmouth and they ask " Why History" you can say how you've always loved history blah blah, but also have a passion for finance, which is why you've (presumably) crushed the technical and can do that job. Boom welcome to GS.

At USC they would probably think "well this kid can't like finance too much because he could have just majored in it" so if you decide to stay at USC I would try and pickup a finance major.

No brah we barely have OCR and even what we have is mostly in socal...
 

If you can support your quantitative abilities, don't underestimate the novelty in a humanities major. 800 Maths SAT, quant coursework, prior finance internships...If you can point to something like that as your quantitative side, then you become a very attractive candidate if you can also prove that you can communicate clearly and think critically.

 

Don't sweat major choice so much. As a target applicant, I was a humanities double major, and it was rare that interviewer would hold it against me. It was also a nice point of connection with professionals who shared similar backgrounds.

End of the day, pick the major in which you will be most interested. This is itself great for your mental health, and has the side benefit of helping you nail your highest potential GPA.

"There are three ways to make a living in this business: be first, be smarter, or cheat."
 

I agree, also go to a target school with a humanities/social science (public policy) background. Don't sweat it. Keep your grades up and show an interest in finance through an internship. Plus you will get easier technicals from your interviewers and often times connect with them through your more interesting major.

 

Majoring in something like Anthropology or English does require a bit of pandering regardless if someone goes to Harvard. I would've assumed that the student would still have to show some sort of quant skills. Now is this required or would a high GPA suffice?

Also, if one did major in Econ, Math, Physics, etc. at a top target would a mid range GPA (3.3-3.5) be enough or atleast equal to someone who majored in English but graduated with a higher GPA (3.6-3.8)?

 

high gpa, any major, ur not a dumbass, u can sell it...ur set. some of these ppl majored in how to BS, think they can BS why they picked their major? probably. and ur english major with the 3.8 might actually be in a better position interview-wise than the 3.5 econ/math double.

 

To the OP --

Major doesn't really matter at targets. At non-targets, though not mandatory, econ/quant majors generally will fair MUCH better. Only choose art history or polisci if you're at a strong target (and UT, UVA, UMICH probably don't count either).

 

"i've seen several 3.7/3.8 english/art history/comm/philosophy majors that have gotten interviews over 3.5 econ/quant majors for banking and consulting

sucks for us"

That does suck and seems really fucking stupid. I understand banking does not take high level math, but i respect a 3.5 in math, physics, engineering, etc etc way way more than a 3.7/3.8 in the other liberal arts degrees. Do you think it has anything to do with most HR people being those majors?

 
Best Response

"That does suck and seems really fucking stupid. I understand banking does not take high level math, but i respect a 3.5 in math, physics, engineering, etc etc way way more than a 3.7/3.8 in the other liberal arts degrees. Do you think it has anything to do with most HR people being those majors?"

Why does it seem "really fucking stupid?" Is a 3.7/3.8 in a humanities major necessarily unable to perform the rudimentary mathematics required for a position in banking? One might just as well argue that it's "really fucking stupid" to spend 4 years studying high level physics only to spend the 2 years after college repeatedly doing lbo models and formatting power point presentations.

An econ/finance major demonstrates that the candidate has serious interest in the subject matter. A high GPA in that major demonstrates that the candidate is not only interested but adept with the subject matter. That said, candidates who elected to pursue other courses of study in college may still be just as interested in finance (applying for the job takes care of that requirement) and once their resume is vetted and an interview is landed, interviewers can gauge whether or not the applicant belongs.

Plenty of successful analysts studied things other than econ/finance/math in college. There's nothing really stupid about it.

 

several points beg to be made: 1. there is a huge difference between the difficulty of an econ or finance major and that of math, physics or engineering.
2. anyone with a 3.0 or higher from a top school (target or not) has the intellectual ability to be an investment banking analyst. however, the skills required to achieve a high GPA are very much the same skills required to be a top analyst. Those skills include drive, focus, maturity, attention to detail and the ability to put up with a lot of b/s. This is why a lot of focus is put on GPA. Not because GPA measures intelligence but because GPA meausures these other factors that are much more important for banking. A difficult major may get you credit for 2 or 3 basis points on your GPA but not more than that. 3. liberal arts/humanity majors tend do to well in the interviewing process because liberal arts majors tend to be more well-rounded and more personable (obviously a broad generalization). well-rounded and more personable individuals tend to interview better.

Author of www.IBankingFAQ.com
 

I only had an average GPA but had a very difficult major so it was easier for me to get offers... of course I was also from a target so that helped a lot as well.

Top banks are not going to take only econ/finance majors, that would create a really boring analyst class where everyone studied the same thing and knows the same things. When I interview people I actually like to see unusual/less common majors because the person is usually more interesting (yes broad generalization, don't mean to offend, exceptions apply etc.).

If you do not go to a target and you are not an econ/finance type major it will be harder to position yourself for banking jobs, but it can still be done.

That said, my advice is the same to everyone who asks: major in what interests you and challenges you, and do well at it. Yes, you should have some interest in business and evidence of being interested in business/finance to get investment banking jobs, but you don't need to be an econ/finance major to do this.

 

I have a film degree......not even a B.A. a B.F.A., but I think that I'm really comfortable interviewing so it made it easier.

********"Babies don't cost money, they MAKE money." - Jerri Blank********

********"Babies don't cost money, they MAKE money." - Jerri Blank********
 

The only job in my bank that an economics degree would help you with is research. There was no degree at my school in Excel, Power Point, and Doing Stupid Tasks for Senior People.

 

i'm studying medicine and will graduate with the equivalent of a MD degree from cambridge, and i'm interning at a BB IBD this summer. i was told by an analyst in first rounds that the fact i studied medicine would be a major obstacle in getting SA, but i conveyed my interest in finance and banking really enthusiastically and well and got the offer

 

thx MikiLzrd, i'm just a summer analyst a FT analyst at JPM is probably not the best use of 6 years and a medical degree i know would be nice to start as an associate, but my complete lack of experience would only qualify me for analyst

 

"Only choose art history or polisci if you're at a strong target (and UT, UVA, UMICH probably don't count either)."

met plenty of humanities majors from Texas and VA at superdays so this is wrong.

 

you raise a good point. if you go to baruch, a school that everyone's heard of and i'll venture to guess has a good touch of scenery (lake overlooked by a long falling-over-tree?) but is not a poster child for coked-up finance excel obsessive compulsives people who get all intensely prideful when they describe mortifying their keyboards voluntarily in order to make their computers into full blown excel machine monsters capable of all things thinkable - people, i continue for just another moment...who talk p/e multiples as code words for "me be cool" and love the fact that the letters "p" and "e" rhyme (think smooth-talking white tupac staring at a bloomberg and 'spitting' out the valuation metrics in rhyming prose yoyoyo) - well you may have a bit of a problem competing with the other schools. That being said, I think you got a great shot at succeeding . But it's hard to argue that a classic boring finance major on your resume wouldn't hurt. My first job, a bulge bracket fixed income desk, young people don't get treated great. Having stuff like that, not a bad thing. Then again, maybe who cares - maybe you can learn cool stuff, perhaps even learn that you don't want finance - or at least that you do, but only for the money, and perhaps you can use this new -found hobby (the major you're going to use to inflate your gap with) to create a business and off to the promised land of entrepreneurial business creation you'll be. far from the rows and cubicles that characterize the path you seem to want to go but...seem to actually not. guess you have to decide. short answer: you can make it either way but i mean, how much do you want it.

 
mandy204011:
Is it true ONLY if you are from the Top schools? I'm attending Baruch College. I was thinking to major in Finance. Now I found that I am interested in another major which is not business-related. I am quite sure that I can get good GPA from the subject that I'm interested in. Plus, I will do a minor in finance and econ. I'm worrying about if major in subject other than finance/accounting/math would limited my chance of getting an interview. Especially Baruch is not a top school. I do want to study something enjoyable but......

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

So why do you want to go into finance if you don't enjoy it enough to do a full on major? Why major in another subject if you know that your going into finance anyway? I understand the doing what you love idea but if your goal is a good job at a top finance place then I would think it pretty obvious that you should max out your GPA in a financial or computer science major (depending on what you want to do in finance) and then do as many internships and extra curriculars as you can on the side to make yourself an exceptional candidate.

Listen, I don't recruit or interview people at this point in my life, but I can tell you that the issue you'll be facing is that you want to work in finance but don't major in it. That sends mixed signals to me. It's not enough nowadays to just have a great GPA. Congrats. So do tons and tons of other people around your age when you graduate who might also have years of working experience to back it up who they can just slot in without having to train, etc. I don't mean to be a downer, but IMO that is one of the issues you face.

That said, if you hate finance and find something else more enjoyable just do that. Finance is not the slam dunk it used to be, if it ever really was, and frankly I think there are opportunities everywhere and in any subject for you to have success. If you are not passionate about finance, go pursue your other major and minor in finance or econ.

 

I can sympathize with the OP. For me, the good thing about not getting a straight vanilla finance degree is that you can learn about another field and keep your options open. Not sure what you want to major in mandy, however I think that STEMs are good alternatives as they allow more room for employment options when you graduate.

In my opinion as well, in regards to higher education, it is great to get a degree you love and then have the possibility of a masters or Phd (out of pure intellectual inclinations of course). It seems to me that nearly all finance related masters are designed purely for career elevation.

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme."
 

Thank you for all of your advice! I almost decided to major in the subject that I'm interested in. Some people told me that GPA is more important than other factors. And I will try to find as many internship as possible. However, I'm not determined enough to make a decision Since I did many research in these couple weeks and I asked many people for advice; some of my older friends who work in banks told me that things that they learnt from finance or accounting classes aren't really related to the work that they do today. So they told me to major whatever I like as long as I can maintain a good GPA. He also mentioned one thing to me that the only small firm/bank want BBA students, big companies don't care about your major but what school you graduated from and your GPA.(Is that true?) But then when I go and searching for internship, there are some (not all) recruiters who actually prefer BBA students.

Anyway, Thanks again to all of you who give me such great support and advice. I truly appreciate it!!

 

Oh,,,by the way, to answer the question why not major in finance in the first place when I know I want to work in finance field. That is becuase my friend (the older friend who work in bank) told me that a college graduate should be able to master the skills in bank and he told me that BBA degree is not that pratical as you think. Then why not major in whatever you like which is easier to get an A? I have no idea why he said something like this, yet some internship qualifications stated the other thing!! In fact, What do most employers think?

 

Any major at any university can get into banking. However, the lower you go on the totem pole the better your other credentials must be.

To point out an extreme case: Joe Bum who majors in underwater basketweaving can still get into banking. He may need to have a 4.0, a daddy who is the CEO, or have started his own valuation firm on the side though.

There is certainly no dividing line unless you start placing other restrictions on the person's credentials.

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 

I think you could potentially add LSE to that list. Although it is the "School of Economics", its full name is the London School of Economics and Political Science, so you can study things like Social Anthropology and History and Sociology. But with the LSE name, I'm sure you'll get a very long look from recruiters. Any degree from LSE is a good degree.

 

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