Mod note: Best of Eddie, this was originally posted on 10/16/12.
We're all familiar with the Friend Zone and what a drag it can be to find yourself there, but today I'm going to share with you a far worse fate and why you must avoid it at all costs: The Marriage Zone. I owe a huge debt of gratitude to TheKing for tipping me off to this hilarious (and searingly accurate) analysis. Consider the following a Public Service Announcement.
What is The Marriage Zone? I'm glad you asked. It's no secret that young women have far greater access to sexual opportunities than their male peers. Young men have to work hard to get laid; young women merely bear the indignity of free drinks while deciding with whom to bump uglies. As both age, however, the dynamic shifts. And at the point where men and women have equal access to sex (his access increasing while hers is decreasing) you find The Marriage Zone.
Most men – average men – can only begin enjoying life at age 29 the way women do at age 19 because it takes them that long to gain the resources women find attractive. The point in life where men’s and women’s access intersect is the marriage zone. She has to get him to commit in that zone before he realizes that his life is really just starting. My recommendation: she’s enjoyed her “wild and free” days, so avoid marriage and go enjoy yours.
As illustrated by the nifty chart, on either side of the Marriage Zone is the Slut Zone and the Player Zone. As you can see, the Player Zone extends at least twice as long as the Slut Zone. The Player Zone is essentially unfettered access to poon as you advance in your career and grow more distinguished in appearance.
So the smart money says to avoid marriage at all costs in your twenties - you'll almost certainly be undervaluing your greatest asset (your freedom). I wish someone had explained this to me when I was that age. I was clueless and got married for the first time at 20. And no, she wasn't that blackest of black swans: the deaf-mute nymphomaniac lingerie model who owns a liquor store.
I can already hear some of you saying, "But Eddie, what if I want to have kids?". Well, first of all, here's what having kids is like on a good day:
Second, what's the rush? As a male you can have kids into your sixties and seventies. And that's probably the best time to do it. You'll probably be dead before you ever have to post bail for one of them.
In summary: if you're in your 20's things are only going to get better for you sex-wise. Not to put it as indelicately as one of the commenters to that post, but men age like wine while women age like milk. You have so few advantages in the battle of the sexes, you'd be a fool to take your greatest advantage and throw it away before you've even enjoyed it.
Just sayin' is all.
I laughed my ass off.
Overall, perfect analysis and something that makes complete sense when you think about it.
Married at 20!!! Hey Eddie, I know this is a stereotype- but you're not from the South are you?
I needed this,
Cheers Eddie, It's nice to hear more people banging the drum, which I first heard beaten by Bill Maher.
Brilliant
I don't know if it's sad or hilarious that this was pretty much my approach to having kids.
Wow, 60s or 70s? did not know that. Things are looking better than I thought.
This makes me feel young again. At 24, I have already started feeling some pressure to hurry up and settle down.
That's what they want us to think. Our fun has barely started.
Oh boy Eddie, it was only a matter of time before another one of these posts came up!
I was having a chat with an older friend who said, "Dude, the power shift is going to be enormous. Right now, you're the awkward guy, but eventually you're gonna be holding all the cards. Soon, you're gonna be meeting friends after work, still dressed in your jacket and loosened tie from the office that day; there are gonna be girls there, and you're gonna be looking good. It gets better, believe me."
Hilarious but those guys clearly weren't in a frat in college. Access level at 21-22 for a guy should be near a 10.
even without being in a frat, those are the years to get the ball rolling not at 29.
I think the level of girls you are thinking of getting at 21 is pretty different from the level of girl at 29.
Agreed, college was like shooting fish in a barrel
Yea buddy, I was in a big frat too and it was really easy to get laid. But wait till you graduate, are 22-23 in a big city w/ relatively no money. You'll have a good job, and realistically you're ahead of most of the older guys compared to where they were at, but it won't matter because all of those girls are looking for older guys that have the $ now. Its pretty humbling.
Most of the times you go out for the first year or two you'll be hitting on older girls that are with a group of older guys. That alone causes your success rate to dramatically decline, I don't care how good you are.
I'm 25 now father, well aware but also over that hump now I'd say.
...and you clearly didn't go to a target school.
shit is a barren wasteland
Ha! Yes, this is what I've been saying for a while! You put it so eloquently. That's why girls I know start going cray cray, They know they are on the clock.
"Those who are losing now will be later to win."
hahah hilarious
I'm happily married, but I'm also in my 30s, and I suppose I can appreciate getting laid an appropriate number of time before you settle down, which is important to those of you still in your 20s. But, let me remind everyone, life isn't just about getting laid, it's also about getting drunk, which is a lot easier when you have someone to split cab fare with or, even better, pick you up at 3am. Just sayin.
Having kids when you're 79 is a spectacular idea. You can share diapers with them. Of course if junior prefers Pampers but you're more of a Huggies guy then you might have to compromise by being second in line for a sponge bath.
i like these posts.
Why do I get the feeling that this story is being told by a bunch of young guys who aren't getting any now, who have hopes and dreams about the future being better than today? If you have trouble getting laid in college, I have bad news for you...you are socially retarded.
Harsh man, harsh. Lots of people are socially retarded at 18 or 19.
That entirely depends on your peer group.
Under 25 have fun, look for a nice job, sexy chicks. 25-30: look for good opportunities be it in your free time, in your job, with women. 30-35: Hopefully you will have find someone worth engaging with, marry her, maybe think raising kids. 35-65: Raise your children and do everything you can to make them happy (hint: doesn't mean raising spoiled children), you should have some $ by now, do something with it, enjoy. You won't take all the cash with you in your grave, and even if you want to there always will be someone who will make sure it doesn't happen. 65: Sit back and relax, hopefully you will be happy with your life. If not then you have all this years in front of you which you will have nothing to do but trying to fix what went wrong.
had a serious girlfriend at 26-27.. hit a point where it was a. get more serious with this girl / current job which tied me to Seattle / boredom or b. move to buenos aires / be single / travel the world / work remotely / focus on experiences and lifestyle design / career growth / building a network / having fun.
guess which one I chose :) - so despite what some of the younger monkeys here say about dreading getting older, the best is yet to come... IF you play your cards right. 27-now have been the best years so far for me.
Not planning on getting married til late 30s or early 40s (30 now)
Watch out Andy, dozens of monkeys are going to fly down there to ask you your secrets!
I imagine that making the decision you did was the hardest decision you ever had to make.
yeah i dwelled on it for awhile, postponed the idea once or twice, but I always knew if I didn't take the leap that desire would never stop burning inside me. follow your heart monkeys
Couldnt agree more. Lesson for ladies here is: spare yourself the emotional roller coaster; 'on again' 'off again' drama of 25year old guys. If you are 25ish and want a serious relationship (not that you have to want one) you should be dating 35-42. Your youthful appearance and outlook are valued (actually adored) instead of taken for granted; and questioned at every turn. Its just easier; you appreciate each other so much more.
Sir, there is a place called 'rest home'.
Erm, Im not sure what you mean by taking care of a 50-60year old man haha. I mean if youre healthy there is no need to have health issues at 50/60... As Eddie said (as a bit of an exaggeration) you can have kids at 70! Im not describing a slob who has been on a strict beer and bacon diet for 30 years.
Dont get me wrong here; you still need love and all the other stuff; not to just look for a target age to tie the knot with.
All I mean is that I would rather date an older guy who treats me like gold that a young stud who treats me like crap, because he doesnt know who he is or what he wants and wakes up one day to realize how much fun his friends are having... or like I'm lucky to have snagged him and finds ways to remind me of this wherever possible. I mean, youre supposed to feel lucky to have found eachother; one half of the relationship cant feel as if they've surrendered (I have dated both so this is from experience).
I imagine having to do some care-taking at 75+ if anything; but I will be 60, and I think a lot of women would agree that if you love eachother, mad eachother happy, and have made it that far, then I would say there are far worse things that could happen than taking care of a spouse you've enjoyed your life with when they need you. Far worse.
You could always be like Rupert Murdoch, who at 81 years young, is not only viable enough to address zillions of shareholders which he's doing right now, but also married to a woman that is about half his age. Not some bimbo, mind you, she has an MBA! Not too shabby for a third wife. Though when he was 37 years old she was 0 years old. I don't think she takes care of his bodily functions. I think his money does that.
Excellent post ! Good advice, Eddie.
Another thing people don't realize (since the readers of this are males) is that, when you ask a young girl (
[quote=Financier4Hire]Excellent post ! Good advice, Eddie.
Another thing people don't realize (since the readers of this are males) is that, when you ask a young girl (
To the finance crowd, this article justifies a young man locking himself in an office from age 22-29, with the hopes that life will be oh-so-much better afterward. It should be required reading for the new Goldman analyst "program."
Confucius say, not all caterpillars become butterflies
Agreed Eddie, I listen to my coworkers bitch everyday about their married lives and how they were married too young.
I'm 24 and broke up with my girlfriend of four years because I realized I don't know who I am and what I want yet. People change drastically from 20-30, and who knows if we'll grow together or apart. I'd so much rather establish my career, save money, and experience different things before I'm ready to choose a partner. And this girl was GREAT - 5' 10", beautiful, smart, good family, etc. It was a very difficult choice, but I think that men need to have their 20's to get things sorted out.
And guys, if you don't get girls now, don't read Eddie's post and come away thinking once you hit 29 and get a little more money you'll suddenly be swimming in poon. You'll still be the same awkward guy you are now. Work on it.
I think this is spot on too. This article is more applicable to the guys that did well in college / have decent game but are put at a disadvantage because of age and $. If i'm a 23-24 year old girl you better fucking believe I'm going for 25-29 year old. By the time late 20's come around, you won't have the fixed liabilities going against you.. rather you'll have some variable issues that you would be able to minimize with practice.
I don't see nothing wrong with havin' a kid...
I have bad news for you nerds: If you're not dating girls regularly now, you're not going to get girls later. I've seen this a lot.
You're going to spend a lot of time on your career now, setting yourself up for the future. You'll go on the occasional date, occasional second date, rare third date; you may hook up with an average looking girl with a somewhat noticeable belly roll a few times a year from a bar or party or something.
You'll wait, expecting things to get better. You're eventually going to get an occasional busted woman using you for your money while she hooks up with her ex-boyfriend, who incidentally runs a Sports Authority in Hoboken. You'll know guys, who are real people not sacrificing everything for monetary success, who will be dating 25 year old smokeshows, and you'll be the nerdy rich dude with the busted girlfriend in too much makeup. You'll date a few warpigs until you either hang yourself from near-middle-age loneliness, or you'll marry the fourth or fifth. By that time, every stretched, cellulose-ridden part of her will have seen more traffic than your right hand.
But hey, it could be worse- you could be that young dude with the beautiful young wife.
Kidding, you couldn't get a girl like that if you drugged her.
Sounds like you have it all figured out. Good thing that people don't develop and adapt their priorities over time or anything.
I know that I'm not the same person I was even a few short years ago; I can't even imagine the development in the next 5-10. But of course you're right, that these "nerds" who don't get any now won't ever get any. It couldn't be that this conveniently fits into your worldview that forces anyone who was a late bloomer or has been focused on their career and being successful for a time to have a terrible love life.
Not very sound logic, but keep on thinking that the guy who owns a Sports Authority has it figured out so much better than anyone else. Couldn't possibly be that he peaked early and that his story never got passed the first few pages.
You determine who you are going to become, who you are going to spend your time with, and what you are going to accomplish, not some cynic on an internet forum. Be nice to these nerds... they'll likely be the ones handling transaction logistics when your cousin's store gets bought out.
Another concern is if you were nerdy when younger and start making money and THEN start getting attention from women, you will always have the sneaking suspicion that your wife or girlfriend is a gold digger.
I've read some of your posts about college days, so I know you agree. I tend to agree with expenseaccount that assuming you are at least somewhat together, you shouldn't have too many problems with women, regardless of how young you are.
Who are you, Hannah Montana? You may change around the edges (probably literally, as in adding weight), but research has shown that people's personalities, worldviews, and habits are largely set by early 20s.
You're obviously trying to convince yourself that losing your v-card at 21 and dating three-four average harpies a year isn't going to lead to a life full of loneliness and Vaseline. It's not, necessarily, but in terms of probability it's above 90%.
If you're in your early to mid twenties, the way you are now is largely the way you're going to be later, barring special cases or testosterone shots. Sorry to be the voice of your slow, sinking realization for you today.
This is absolutely hilarious!
Timely new article:Shotgun wedding: Buy an engagement ring, get a free gun
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/shotgun-wedding-buy-engagement-rin…
Get engaged, have gun just in case things don't work out (I'll let you interpret as you wish...)
There is an arbitrage opportunity here that my roommate in NYC used to take advantage of. As females cross out of the marriage zone and enter their early 30's with no marriage prospects in sight, they become increasingly more desperate, aka cougars. He used to avoid the BS of hitting on 22-26 year old girls and just go straight to Pastis (NYC cougar hangout).
I didn't personally want to go this route for a variety of reasons, but it certainly worked for him (like every single Wed-Sun night that he wasn't working).
Whiskey Park is another great cougar hangout...
Keep 'em coming...
Double Post
Loved the post - its interesting to read this from a few different sides. I have no problem getting girls at my age but I have been dating one for awhile now. My philosophy always boils down to one thing. When I look at the other side of the fence.. and I see the green grass... its easy to be tempted to jump over. But why ruin something if you are happy (as long as you are happy)? I start to feel insane when I think of ruining the good thing I have because my mind is wired for more more more.
I got some good advice from a single male MD mentor of mine who is 60+ he said "I find that people usually want to bring down or trash talk what they can't or couldn't have. Its rare to find someone who you enjoy being around and will really value you. So if you've got it you would be dumb to get rid of it."
That's not to say my eggs are in the basket - "Just sayin' is all."
great post
Shouldn't you have been prepping for the debate rather than reading WSO, Mitt?
There is something to be said for being with someone who doesn't see you as just a checklist or a means to an end, but can relate to you like an actual human being... Maybe even have shared experiences and values (what a novel concept!).
That's more likely to happen if you've spent time with the person before you have both become set in your ways.
BTW, here's another reason for waiting until older: as women age (and their desirability curve goes down), their libido goes up and they also screw better. No 23-year old Rihanna can hold it up to to a 30s horny champ ! A 20-year doesn't even know what she's doing. She's just as good at it as she's at changing the tires at a car
I think this post is amazing... I just find it funny that it released on the day of the 3-year anniversary with my girlfriend...
just dont
It seems a lot of people are implying that drive for academic/career success is mutually exclusive with having a good social life/getting girls/being a cool person. They're not if you do it right. I'm certainly not claiming to be the master of the universe who has it all figured out in his early 20's, but I know friends who go hard in every aspect of life and try to emulate them as much as possible; and it works. I was personally the type who had the social thing figured out first in my adolescent years and then later (now) working on academic discipline. If you're in college, just live in the library Mon-Wed, no bullshit wasting time just plow through work, and go out Thurs-Sat and get hammered, take girls home, etc. Join a frat if you're in that type of school, or socialize and meet the right people if you're in a city. It might be different if you're the other way around though, because becoming a likable person is a much more subtle and harder to figure out then how to get your shit together in terms of work and academics.
My point is, if you want to be someone, do it now and don't daydream about how things are going to be different in the future. Shoot for every aspect of life - confidence, girls, status, maybe not money but preparation for career - when you are young and you'll be at your peak all your life. There's no reason why you can't simultaneously be a frat star bringing home 9's and banging out 3.8's in classes. In the words of Marcus Aurelius, "Stop talking about what a good man should be. Be one."
This is where I stopped reading.
Nope, you read the whole thing. Perhaps even twice over.
Is this what you mean by waiting as long as I can to have kids? 96, this guys all sorts of legend!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2218588/Ramjit-Raghav-Worlds-ol…
How about the girl that didn't have fun when younger and instead stuck by her Broke boyfriend from college, kept encouraging him and seeing him throug those nights he had to stay at the office number crunching till mid night! Would It be fair that once he gets to 29 and has more money and better position to just dump her because he is now ready to live his life and have fun!!! You guys are so immature and have no idea what really matters in life! U may think u can have it all at a later stage but I have seen bold, grey haired men in their late 40s running after toddlers in the park and it is not a pretty sight at all looool and most of them say not having children when They were younger was the biggest mistake of their lives! It is time to grow up!!!!! In the days of gladiators, men use to be mature, have children, fight In wars and look smoking hot at 20.....sadly these days us women have to deal with men who never make it out of their teenage years lol
Thems the breaks, baby. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
.
Hasn't the age of the male been shown to have a stronger link to the incidence of autism in the kids than the age of the female? The chance of autism is higher when a woman is 40+. So someone that knows more than I can do some maths.
guys have a biological clock also
Agree that marriage prior to the twilight of your 20s does not really make sense. That said, I don't think things are as rosy on the sexual front for men post 30 as you and others in this thread make it seem. Several reasons for this:
The typical avenues for meeting women and gaining access to random vagina begin closing off around a man's mid-30s. Chances are if you're a 38 or 43 year old guy you don't have a lot of buddies willing to pre-game and hit the bar/club every Saturday night. And if you do manage to find a couple guys willing to head out with you, chances are you will be the only older guys in the venue. Not exactly the best set-up for a night of lascivious fun. Which leads to the next point.
"40+ year playboy" = creepy old guy to most You're simply not a part of their social scene and never will be, which means they will not sleep with you. You'll have to resign yourself to 35+ year old women or You may not be the reproductive fountain of youth you think you are. Sounds great - have kids in your 60s. But some recent research has suggested that "old sperm" may bear more of the blame for birth defects and congenital issues than "old eggs." And who wants to be one of those "old dads?" Given the choice, I'd probably prefer having a fireside chat over a glass of scotch with my 25 year old son at age 60 rather than cleaning up his baby spittle.
All completely valid points. By the time you're in your 40s, you're probably not hitting club poon anymore. At that point it's all about social networks (not the Internet kind, though I suppose they can help). You build up a referral network and allow it to do the heavy lifting for you. Two caveats: you have to have money, and you have to be in shape. Nobody wants to fuck a fatty no matter how much dough you have.
As to your second point, and this is all conjecture on my part because I've been married for the past decade, but for me I can't imagine being too interested in tolerating the banality of a woman in her early twenties. If I wanted to pound out a smokin' hot 22 year old chick, I'd pick up the phone and have one sent over. I certainly wouldn't go to the effort of listening to hours of vapid blather about roommates, Facebook, and how independent she is despite the fact her parents still pay all her bills. I'd go for the pro every time. That said, women over 30 are infinitely more interesting (that's not to say there aren't any women in their 20s who are equally interesting), and have been tenderized by life to the point where the chip on their shoulder can at least be hidden for the night. Plus, you can generally talk them into some really silly shit that would horrify most women in their early 20s.
Finally, don't get the idea that I think having a kid at 60 or 70 is a good idea. It isn't, and that's true of just about any age. Let's face it: with seven billion people on the planet we certainly don't need you or anyone else adding another. The takeaway here is simply don't have kids, but if you must, do it late enough in life that you'll die soon and won't suffer much.
This just made me spill milk on my keyboard, hahaha
Dad?
You guys are assuming that you'll be doing well financially when you're in your 30s/40s... What if your industry dies, you get laid off, your start-up dies, or you lose it all in some other fashion? What if you fall ill, or your tool is impaired?
No point putting off sex and relationships until your old age.
Carpe Diem... Until you die, that is. Then you're maggot food.
Fc link is broken, it worked like a few minutes ago. Arghhh, I wanted to print the graph.
Doesn't anyone here have (or had) a girlfriend in her early 20s ? They wake up and go to sleep with Facebook, send you 500+ texts a day, I mean they're the most obnoxious thing in the world !
In my house, I have a simple rule:
your ideas are intriguing to me and i would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
hahahaha
this post is an instant classic
look for it on saturday's "best of eddie" sometime in 2013..
If you didn't get laid in high school this post is tailor-made for you
I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with the majority sentiment here. Absolutely agree that if you're in a relationship and it's holding you back from anything that you seek to accomplish in life, end it yesterday. But a solid relationship isn't one that is seen as a constraint, it is something makes your life better than it would be without the person. Icing on the cake, not the cake. It makes you better than you would have been and there should never be something that you want to do that she wouldn't let you do, be it personally or professionally (aside from having your way with the maid). Plain and simple.
Most of you guys overvalue the utility you'll get from smashing tons of random chicks. From experience, it gets old...quick. Diminishing marginal utility, kids. There's only so much flesh you can conquer before realizing that it doesn't bring any true fulfillment; it just becomes a commodity. Sure you guys can idealize having a life that the Dos Equis commercial says you should have, but wake up...Having a partner that is always there for you, supports everything you want to accomplish and is completely ride or die with you is the true value. And news flash, those deep value plays tend to get pretty damn scarce with age.
Does anyone know what happened to the article? If you have a copy of the PDF, please PM me.
..
I agree with everything except this. Assuming that there are more females than males this leaves more potential mates for males than for females assuming that there are roughly an equal number of non-bi, homo only males and females. The answer is that men can get S.E.X. easily, but not always at the desired frequency. Thus men should not take a, "not now," response for a "no".
This is pretty creepy coming from a guy whose avatar is a robot with an appendage.
I adopted the Funnybot as my avatar because @"Aaron Burr" has the Bender Bending Rodríguez as his avatar.
In a 7-yr relationship. No pressures of marriage but that can change instantaneously.
Loyal girl, was a 9/10 when I first met her but now losing attraction (even Tony Parker got bored of Langoria lol)... something like 35% from declining looks, 65% just because used to the same thing. Rate a 7 now. Biggest complaint is I love really skinny girls, but she's only moderately thin... yes, very shallow but I'm a man.
To the young guys, don't be deceived by the looks of a 19-yr old. It will likely go downhill. I feel like if a girl is a knockout at 30 then she will be so for the rest of her life... so wait to settle down. You never know how that gorgeous college junior will age though.
Great advice, and hilarious write-up. When can we just lease marriages? That'll be the day.
Eddie, you sir are a fucking genius.....this post is the best yet. You hit the nail on the head....I'm so anti-marriage and people look at me like I'm weird for it. You get it and for that, you have my respect.
This is the funniest string of comments on any article on this site. I havn't read all of the comments but what I've gathered is that the commentors on this thread are either guys who got laid in college, guys who didn't and guys who think they're changing.
One thing for sure that I agree with is that most people don't change after college, although I have to disagree that at certain level money doesn't influence HOT girls to seek your company. Depending on her socioeconomic status, a girl will look past a guys social defenciancies to get with said guy because he has money. This isn't even delibrate on the girls part, its how they're conditioned. For the most part, the more socially unaware or awkward you are the more money you need to make although after a certain point it doesn't matter.
I have to add that people do change after college but its difficult. I'm still in school but I have friends out of college for four years and most of them are the same people they were when I met them. If your a guy who wants to change his anti-poon ways, I would befriend someone whose a fun person and knows how to talk to women and emulate that person.
I needed this as well. Great advice. Thank you.
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