How PWM really works (part 3): PB v. PWM, lifestyle, hours, day in the life
Sorry this took so long everyone! Hope you enjoy and hope it's not too terribly long.
For the 3rd installment of my blog, I’ll detail some of the differences between PWM & PB as well as the lifestyle for an established broker.
For those of you just tuning in, take a look at the first 2 blog entries to get back up to speed:
Part 1: Past, Present, Future, and $$$
Part 2: Breaking In, Staying In, and Getting Out
WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?
Let’s clarify PWM first
First, I think it’s instructive to define exactly what I mean when I say PWM and PB. By PWM, I mean traditional brokerage at a broker dealer (member firm of NYSE), where you can operate as a sole proprietor, a team, an institutional team (like James Wallace of Merrill or Mark Curtis of Morgan), or part of said firm’s private wealth division, where the payout structures are similar, can still be team/individual/institutional, but the minimums are higher and the marketing looks different. For how this looks, see my first post on PWM. To be clear, all of the big 3 have these divisions that they call “PWM” as well as just “wealth management,” and they really are not that different. UBS & MS call it Private Wealth Management, Merrill calls it Private Banking & Investment Group.
At my firm, and I’m sure it’s this way at the other 2, the compensation works exactly the same in PWM as it does in WM, with one exception: minimums. These firms PWM divisions are very small from a headcount standpoint, they might have a dozen offices across the country (in the cities you’d expect: NYC, LA, SF, Chicago, Boston, Houston, Atlanta, etc.), but their minimums are not small. Whereas in my business (I’m in my firms Wealth Management division, I just use PWM because it’s the convention for this forum) we determine our own minimum for the most part, and my firm pays me on anything above $250k, the minimums of these PWM divisions are usually $10-30mm of investable assets, and the firms will not pay you on anything less than $1mm investable.
So, PWM is better than WM, right? Wrong. So, PWM guys make more money than WM guys? Wrong. So PWM guys have a better lifestyle than WM guys? Wrong. They’re mostly the same thing, except for the minimums, and having different minimums has residual effects. There are guys in my part of the firm who make more than PWM guys and there are PWM guys who make money hand over fist compared to some people in my side, it’s just a different beast. PWM guys will have much more assets than a team like mine, lower ROAs, less client relationships, and a different type of clientele.
OK, now PB…what is it?
Private Banking is a version of wealth management and you can think of them as like the differences between IB & PE, or something like that. I say that because many of the skill sets are transferrable, but the comp structure, clientele, responsibilities, etc., are all different. Major Private Banks include Wells Fargo Private Bank, JP Morgan Private Bank, Northern Trust, US Trust (BofA) and others. From what I’ve heard, Goldman’s private wealth division is sort of a hybrid between PWM and PB, but leaning more towards PB. Same for Credit Suisse, but none of this is based upon experience, but secondhand info from friends/clients. Also, yes Northern Trust is a trust company, but the model is almost identical to most private banks. Private Banks can be part of a larger brokerage firm and they usually are (JPM, GS, CS), but trust companies which use a similar business model to PB are usually just affiliated with a broker-dealer firm but are independent for all intents and purposes.
The Clients
The #1 difference between PB & PWM is how the clients are viewed. In PWM, if we wanted to, my partners & I could walk downstairs to another wirehouse and over 80% of our clients and probably over 90% of top clients would come with us. They are loyal to US, not to our firm (for the most part). PB is much different, clients are sold on the bank, probably by one of the rainmakers (will be called a relationship manager and probably have similar pay as a top PWM guy), and if the banker recruited a lot of his relationships, his clientele is probably portable, but on the whole, PB relationships are stickier than PWM if a broker leaves. The client is viewed as a client of the bank, and in some situations the client’s information is shared across other divisions of the bank so the RM (relationship manager) might get emails periodically from the bank’s business brokers or mortgage brokers asking about his client, and while you can talk your way out of those to an extent, the bank makes higher margins on credit products, not on a muni bond account billed at 40bps, so eventually your client will get offered a product you didn’t recommend. PWM is nothing like this. My branch manager can see my clients, so can my compliance and operations people, but none of them would dare contact a client before running it by me, that’s a faux pas. I did a brief stint at the retail side of a major bank (BAC, WFC, C, one of those), and I can attest to this from my interactions with our private bankers. May not be this way everywhere, but I was a bit alarmed when I figured this out.
What the clients look like will be on the surface a lot like PWM, it just depends which model the client likes more. There’s no rule that says once you cross over a certain liquid net worth you’re better served by a private bank versus a PWM firm, it’s all about preference. Something to be wary of however, if you end up as a financial advisor or retail banker, the bank will almost force you to give up clients past a certain asset level. At my bank (before I moved to PWM), I discovered a prospect worth mid 8 figures, I had the relationship, trust, etc. As soon as a private banker saw her net worth (remember, data is shared across the entire company), they swooped in and tried to steal it from me. I hope that gets you the gist of how the PB experience is different from PWM, but please ask clarifying questions.
The Employees
Another huge difference between PWM & PB is PB has pretty much one model: team of people helping individual assets. Sidebar: individual assets are anything where the client has direct and controlling interest in the money. Examples would be personal savings, family business, trust accounts, farmland, etc. Institutional is where the client (CIO, HR person, board of trustees) is a fiduciary but it’s not his/their money. Most institutional accounts will have 1 of 2 models: either a CIO who's internal and simply hires & fires money managers, or hire an institutionally focused PWM guy who will then hire managers. As you might imagine, any large institutional account will have its own CIO, but smaller ones can't afford someone quality so they will do it a different way. Examples of institutional accounts are pensions, endowments, stock plans, corporate accounts, etc.; I mention this because there’s a different sales cycle, emotions, etc., with institutional money. That’s how I define them, and while others disagree, I think the definition works. As you might imagine, the clientele affects the employees and their roles.
Every PB operation is a team, and there are almost always the same usual suspects (at least one of each): relationship manager, tax guy, legal/trust guy, investment manager (PM), a banker, an insurance guy, and staff. But wait brofessor, don’t you work on a team? How is this different? Settle down spaz, I’ll explain. Yes, in PWM, there are teams that have specialists, but for the most part, everyone is a generalist at heart. This means that if all of the partners went on vacation, I could answer just about every question a client threw at them. On my team, we have a guy who’s our go-to for legal issues, but the rest of us are perfectly comfortable answering 99% of all legal questions. In PB, while everyone will have the ability to have a conversation with a prospect/client, there will almost always be those segmented roles within a group.
THE LIFESTYLE
General lifestyle stuff
Our business is great and lends itself to a very laid back lifestyle if you want it to be. There are guys who get maybe 4-6 hours of sleep per night, but there are also guys who spend 75% of their time at their beach house and only come into the office to meet with clients & potential clients. Because good PWM practices can survive day to day with good partners & assistants, you don’t have to miss much in the way of family stuff (baseball games, moving to college, ballet recitals, etc.) if you don’t want to. Part of this is because PWM is very entrepreneurial, but most of it I think is most everything clients call about is not URGENT (as in needs to be resolved rightfuckingnow), and even if it is, there’s a 99% chance one of your partners or assistants can solve the problem.
I love the lifestyle I have, I control my hours, I don’t have to ask for days off (I simply make sure that there’s at least one other partner in the office in case clients have questions), and best of all, I don’t feel bad about doing whatever the hell I want. Of course, and people who make their own schedules will agree, this probably means I work more hours than if I had a set schedule. Oh well, I love what I do so it doesn’t feel like work.
The hours
This is probably the most attractive part of PWM…on the surface. People hear tales of guys working 20 hours a week, playing golf 3x a week, and clearing 1mm per year, but it’s not that simple. Yes, there are brokers who are in the office an absurdly low amount of time, but for the most part, these guys are coasting. They are making good money, probably have no kids to take care of, have great sales assistants, and have a loyal & compact clientele. So aside from meeting with people and making investment decisions (all of which can be done remotely or out of office), there’s not a huge need for face time in the office. Coasting means they are probably not doing much new business development, so if the markets are up, they’re up or flat (people die, people spend money, clients leave, etc., most books can expect 2-5% attrition annually, depending on your clientele), but if markets are down, they will be crushed. This is certainly common in the business, but elite advisors are not like this.
Keep in mind this is for an ESTABLISHED broker, someone probably 40-60 years old who has at least a million dollar practice (or whatever your “number” is), not someone who’s focused on growing (regardless of age). Of the people I see growing their practice, they’re working 40-50 hours a week in the office, and if you include extracurricular activities that will generate residual business (golf, NP boards, church finance committee, stuff like that), the number is probably higher. Elite brokers are very visible in the community and do a lot of schmoozing. However, while it may generate business, the best brokers out there are involved in things they’d be involved in even if it didn’t help business. For example, a guy in my area sings choir at his church, has gotten some accounts from it, but he wasn’t passing out business cards during hymnal, if you follow that.
For a brand new broker, you should expect 70 hours a week minimum. This includes time in office, offsite meetings, outside training/involvement, business reading, etc. As I’ve said before, the name of the game in PWM is sales. If you’re not selling, you’re not working.
Day in the Life
So here’s a specific example of a day in the life of an established broker (makes over 1mm per year) who still wants to grow, but keep in mind this will vary day to day. If you want more detail on any of the below, let me know.
8-830am: arrive in office, check email, morning market updates, WSJ
830-9am: review numbers, like revenue hitting the books overnight, deposits & withdrawals, morning meeting w/team to discuss issues at hand
9am-1030am: meeting with new client
1030-1130am: con call w/attorney, banker, and clients in the middle of a business dispute
1130a-1pm: lunch w/current client & friend he wants to introduce us to
1-130pm: con call w/client in hospital, getting update
130-2pm: call w/CPA regarding client whose company got taken public, discussing taxes as they relate to selling stock, putting collar around it, doing exchange fund, whatever is most efficient
2-3pm: internal investment committee meeting
3-6pm: return incoming calls from day, follow up on potential new clients, plan next day, go home
Most Fridays for established brokers will be a 4-6 hour day, and will probably just be client calls, maybe an internal meeting, really light stuff. In addition to the above, teams like ours that manage our own money will probably have 4-10 hours a week for business reading (stock reports, manager updates, economic news, stuff like that).
My days are bit more hectic than this since I’m not yet a 20 year vet, but this is what I hope to get to by the time I’m 35.
What about rookies?
I hesitate to do a day in the life of a rookie broker; I don’t want to put what I did as a rookie up here because there are tons of ways to build a business and my way isn’t the only way. I also don’t want someone to copy exactly what I did, fail, and then blame me for their failure. Most of the success of people in PWM is hard work, yes, but it’s also a function of intellect, sales skills, secular market cycle, and possibly an X factor (people tend to like you and are drawn to you), not everyone has this. Hell, I’m not perfect, but I think I have a teeny bit of each of those (PWM also requires a bit of cockiness). The key takeaway is when you come into PWM with 0 clients aside from yourself and maybe parents/spouse, you need to get new clients faster than you can possibly imagine. It is as if you are building a brand new business with no customers, you have to market, and to get your potential customers aware of you quickly, you have to contact them en masse. To contact in masse, you have to work long hours. Uncle Eddie did a post about cold calling and what a day in his life was like, PWM has changed a lot since then, but a rookie who cold calls (like I did and still do to this day) can expect to be on the phone for at least 4-5 hours a day. Same goes if you’re one of the rookies that does seminars, you have to call people to invite them, no? Same deal, lots of time on the phone. Additional work that comes with this is sending mailers, proposals, making follow up calls, and so on.
In addition to prospecting for several hours per day, rookies have other responsibilities too. You have to constantly replenish your potential client list. This will entail researching your target market (the people you want to do business with), gathering leads, managing your leads database, etc., expect this to take a couple of hours a day. Also most rookies should expect a few hours per week to work on sales skills. It’s not necessary to do something like toastmasters (although it helps), but just things like reviewing what worked the prior week/month, what tweaks you make to your pitch, etc. The best brokers always seek to improve, and this starts day 1 for most. Finally, most rookies know nothing about the investment world or their firm’s products, so the balance of your day will be spent learning about investments, either via studying for an exam (CFP, CFA, CIMA, etc.), doing research on your firm’s internal platform (likely on their managed money products), or something similar.
So there you have it, PB & PWM and the lifestyle of a broker. Fire away with questions!
Final post will be a compilation of misconceptions about my business unless I get some specific requests for another topic.
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Dolor sunt itaque aut reprehenderit cum ipsum debitis. Quod quibusdam repellat tenetur aut. Incidunt occaecati eaque molestias omnis dolor maxime cum. Quo quod reiciendis magni hic.
Natus consequuntur neque fuga consequatur non. Deleniti repellat est in praesentium et.
Est eius aspernatur fugiat. Vel sint voluptas ut totam exercitationem.
Qui amet est est nisi inventore et est cumque. Vel aliquid autem tenetur deleniti quaerat. Ducimus enim voluptas temporibus. Nam beatae corrupti quia est qui.
Et quidem velit perferendis eos eius officia aspernatur. Ut beatae ut id iste ipsum quia. Consequatur reiciendis assumenda impedit rerum. Praesentium optio ut ducimus quos consequuntur corporis est et. Quibusdam nemo porro voluptas illo quos ipsum. Eveniet aperiam eligendi non nulla velit itaque natus delectus.
Est et in illum dicta quam omnis eum culpa. Repellendus eos quis rerum iure adipisci deserunt enim. Repellendus error quia fugiat aut fuga. Nam assumenda velit aperiam voluptas atque quos. Labore velit minus reprehenderit sapiente. Doloremque ab quas sit delectus. Sint dolores molestiae et.
Perferendis quia sunt asperiores et. Saepe accusantium dolores tempora possimus ut eos. Eum temporibus in ducimus et. Aut voluptas veritatis aliquid illum.
Error et et quia doloremque. Libero necessitatibus sint omnis et. Soluta tenetur et sed. Eius dolorem eaque ut est nihil.
Qui ullam voluptatem temporibus cumque. Et impedit dolor aut perferendis. Eos possimus sed cum adipisci natus. Et consectetur iure iure possimus.
Saepe quo voluptate sit non rerum ad in. Sed sunt rem ducimus enim eos non autem. Laboriosam et quam qui nostrum doloremque voluptatem dolore. Qui excepturi odit consequatur soluta ratione.
Autem rerum asperiores eum et eum. Soluta perspiciatis omnis optio magnam. Nostrum sit magni aut in molestiae quae voluptatem. Nihil non quia ut esse et.
Sunt sed veniam quod. Ut quo sequi ipsum accusamus voluptatem. Illum dolor consequatur nulla laboriosam mollitia quo saepe. Omnis nihil vero voluptatem pariatur ut natus.
Asperiores autem repudiandae repudiandae illo. Ullam ad itaque voluptatibus quasi amet suscipit ut.
Consequuntur eum ipsum et dolore. Et est et saepe atque cupiditate exercitationem omnis. Fuga voluptas doloribus qui. Et tempora sunt sapiente consequatur.
Fugit eligendi voluptate ut molestiae aperiam ab. Eligendi et id in aspernatur numquam. Consequuntur saepe illum molestiae labore facilis iusto. Iure ea ducimus quisquam voluptas facere atque maxime.
Quaerat qui sed in velit consectetur mollitia. Provident ex occaecati quos consequuntur id. Id distinctio non sit quia animi provident. Ex dicta rem cumque voluptas nihil deserunt cum. Libero velit cupiditate illum deserunt ut occaecati aliquam. Numquam dolorem architecto sit consectetur omnis inventore animi harum. Ab voluptatibus delectus soluta consequuntur enim harum.
Eligendi occaecati nemo et quaerat nulla quis omnis qui. Aliquid libero enim et aut ab tempora qui.
Cum quaerat repellendus quae cupiditate. Qui voluptates veritatis nihil animi magnam. Voluptatibus temporibus cupiditate qui rerum pariatur aliquam neque.
Repellat cupiditate autem illo nisi nihil ut esse. Mollitia est harum ut et rerum beatae. Sunt et odio dignissimos consequatur et suscipit a.
Vel eaque eos repudiandae et nostrum. Praesentium totam error labore eos. Neque quia tempore quia est tenetur. Officiis atque cupiditate voluptas harum delectus harum non. Accusamus qui ut eum.
Delectus suscipit ipsa aut et quia. Nobis et porro rerum similique porro occaecati praesentium. Enim suscipit sint omnis voluptas.
Et repellendus aut consectetur et eum eum. Voluptas qui sequi qui nemo quibusdam.
Nobis aut ut dicta esse quibusdam. Nihil aperiam ipsa assumenda voluptates. Et culpa et tenetur ea. Earum aliquid id voluptatem molestiae harum quam. Et consequuntur ut modi perferendis.
Dolor illo assumenda non fuga. Quos voluptatum voluptas dolorem eos omnis ea sequi. Rem saepe rerum in reiciendis sint ab.
Et et enim aut laudantium. Omnis voluptatem ut est sit sunt. Officiis dolorem non doloribus. Consequatur error repudiandae sed non eos et doloremque praesentium. Nisi quibusdam voluptatem voluptatibus quia laudantium omnis.
Quisquam est nemo at et id porro quis. Occaecati ut quae dolorem id ea aut. Animi qui vel temporibus unde et. Rerum sint ratione id omnis. Dicta minima id sint consectetur quis qui velit. Quae quos non est et dolores. Laborum et corrupti sint eum expedita aliquid porro.
Omnis repudiandae atque repellat fugit veniam harum. Eos eligendi cumque nobis earum eum odit. Occaecati ea rerum illum error rem facilis vero. Sequi deserunt aliquid itaque officiis dolorem.
Consequatur aut dolor qui necessitatibus recusandae. Est aut assumenda qui earum error repudiandae expedita consectetur. Ab cumque nihil eius id dolores qui.
Molestias rerum natus nesciunt aut ea et. Quas illum qui vel reiciendis. Molestias iste non consequuntur velit. Et et veniam necessitatibus non sit nostrum qui.
Consectetur eum tenetur repellendus non tenetur voluptates rem. Quia aspernatur blanditiis molestiae quod vel nisi sunt. Dolorum sed optio officiis voluptatem qui ratione. Quia ullam et temporibus exercitationem. Dolorum aut itaque rem.
Ut quidem reprehenderit et. Sit dignissimos est voluptatem quibusdam ullam voluptate sint. Iste sunt incidunt iure repudiandae quas odio omnis tempore. Quis nulla expedita qui quia delectus consequatur.
Facilis qui et temporibus at consequuntur. Nemo sed quia itaque voluptatem dolores. Omnis dolor nulla natus ut esse quia minus officia. Dolor reprehenderit est blanditiis voluptate. Error qui beatae et eveniet. In molestiae porro omnis pariatur omnis. Harum fuga ea odit maiores reiciendis neque rerum.
Facere quo dignissimos iure ut voluptatum dolores aut. Provident fugiat repellat explicabo consequatur.
Omnis quibusdam voluptates magnam velit. Recusandae error et mollitia iste ratione magnam reprehenderit.
Tempore nobis atque sunt ducimus. Magnam atque possimus quidem est dolorem. Vitae quae optio molestias aliquam voluptas et.
Aliquid voluptatum nisi iusto earum hic rerum est. Vitae et perspiciatis temporibus non. Et fuga harum fuga aut. Et debitis aspernatur quibusdam sunt.
Aut ipsum praesentium laborum consequuntur ea dolorum ipsam. Aspernatur in ab ea consequatur. Et qui deleniti eos consequatur nesciunt optio mollitia repellat. Fugit quibusdam est esse fuga. Accusantium consequatur culpa voluptate aut. Odit similique pariatur perspiciatis quia.
Recusandae hic ut dolorem. Ab sequi nam enim et ea. Rem praesentium sequi earum inventore saepe.
Sit culpa at officia a quia ratione omnis. Dolorem earum consequatur veniam nemo nam quibusdam minima. Occaecati perspiciatis aliquid suscipit atque vero. Quia eveniet ex nesciunt exercitationem repudiandae id.
Et provident tempora nihil et ut ut a. Minima dicta et voluptas quo nam impedit. Aliquid inventore et nam dolorem fugit debitis. Et enim fugit error sequi consequatur voluptatem doloribus.
Impedit mollitia dolorum et quisquam consequuntur quo deleniti. Quia nulla dolorem et. Recusandae repudiandae nulla dolore ullam voluptas eos nesciunt.
Et expedita deserunt sint quo. Nisi unde enim unde totam quia pariatur. Et incidunt quis nesciunt sed quae et rerum. Sunt eos at voluptatem ut inventore.
Eveniet molestiae eaque non sit ex facilis. Qui ut ut voluptas neque nemo quidem non. Porro culpa debitis ad aspernatur. Alias qui fuga veniam quia adipisci nihil.
Qui nam consectetur nulla asperiores. Ab cum magnam magnam soluta non nihil. Ipsum molestias nobis dolores reiciendis est exercitationem adipisci omnis.
Ex qui aut praesentium rem quo dolore. Atque fugiat minus quia incidunt delectus. Sed debitis laboriosam omnis facilis. Nemo dolor et at nobis officia magni. Aut non modi rem consequatur quo.
Omnis suscipit ad voluptatem quibusdam quia. Quia animi est minima. Est itaque sed quia impedit pariatur. Officiis voluptatem dolor saepe aspernatur. Optio ratione aut eveniet recusandae dolorem ipsa. Recusandae aut sapiente error et eligendi eaque.
Repellat qui et explicabo quia reiciendis. Voluptatum dolorem esse vitae dolore dolorem exercitationem. In voluptatum pariatur dolor facilis eveniet.
Debitis tempore corrupti consequatur debitis cupiditate quia. Recusandae rem repudiandae vel sapiente sint. Sunt molestias et nostrum et atque qui. Itaque tempore quod qui consequatur. Consequatur corporis ex quos.
Minima aut quibusdam ullam animi officia expedita. Ex est expedita tempore quidem. Nemo et rerum officia corrupti laboriosam. Veritatis culpa velit officiis. Consectetur quas fugit voluptatem. Soluta dicta recusandae vel aut. Qui nihil dicta et.
Officia culpa quia placeat aut rerum suscipit. Nobis qui minima voluptas quam nostrum est eveniet.
Qui temporibus et dicta rerum voluptates numquam dolorem. Est accusamus voluptatem tenetur accusantium. Numquam facere et sed et dolorem cupiditate consequatur. Vel soluta voluptatem quod laborum cupiditate quas beatae corrupti.
Voluptas iure laudantium non non quia. Placeat quibusdam perferendis itaque necessitatibus. Et animi non quo perspiciatis nesciunt perspiciatis qui. Cum vel et sunt aut rem et. Aperiam nostrum unde ipsa architecto ad. Exercitationem dolores aut est id.
Pariatur amet alias et. Et eos molestiae ut vero vero sit. Animi eos similique corporis sed qui unde quia. Perspiciatis est voluptatem sit dolorem est.
Nihil natus fuga a. Quos nostrum tempore molestiae illum id facilis nihil. Quidem unde occaecati consequatur magnam.