This industry employs some of the sharpest and most capable human specimens on the planet. It attracts the best of the best by being financially rewarding - god knows it’s not for the nature of the work - but such is capitalism. Question is, is the money really worth it? Investment Bankers don’t change the world, Fund Managers don’t save lives, and one would be hard pressed to find a red blooded American kid who ever dreamt of one day growing up and working 60-80 hour weeks doing modeling, working on excel, matching buy and sell orders, etc. There isn’t much depth to this profession, but there is tremendous depth in the talent pool it occupies. Imagine if all that brain power were harnessed and mobilized for a more noble pursuit than that of personal monetary gain.
I know this isn’t the place for pseudo-socialist musings, but I’ve got to believe that these thoughts have crossed all of our minds at one point or another. I suspect that for many of us, settling for a career in finance means just that – settling. That's why I've decided to leave the business, become a Fireman, and audition for American Idol.
I'll keep you all posted.
I'm just going to comment on "Investment Bankers don't change the world".
Look, being a fireman is great and it helps a lot of people. But, being a "banker" doesn't mean all dollars, bonuses and capitalism. Bankers are an integral part of our world, and they do change the world in ways we don't realize. When you fly United Airlines this summer, notice the "free" meal, or the improved service, or when you use Google and get the latest search results in less than a second, or when you buy that latest GM vehicle and get a quality automobile...all of these have been possible because "bankers" have helped these companies grow, or shown them ways to reduce costs and improve their operations.
So, looking at the world directly we might not see the effect of bankers, but if you step back and see what all of these mergers, acquisitions and IPOs do, you'll soon realize that Banks, no matter how capitalist they seem, are extremely necessary.
I wish you all the best in your endeavour in becoming a fire fighter and commend you for such a decision, but remember, our economy and society requires all professions to ensure progress and a successful future.
^i'm saying exactly that if someone gives me shit for wanting to be a banker^
If I didn't care so much about money I would, without a doubt, become a fireman. I can't think of a cooler job than breaking down doors, putting out a fire, and saving people. Goodluck man.
Hahaha thanks! On a lighter note, this is a good answer when a girl who doesn't like "bankers" says to you "I don't date bankers, their job is all money and nothing meaningful". Especially for ladies who love a down-to-earth guy, this is a good way to say you care about the "big" picture and not the "big check!" :)
Defensive much? Looks like the OP struck a nerve.
Quite simply, the real number of people that it takes to maintain liquidity in the market, complete the needed deals for companies to grow, and do any other "necessary" tasks that make up I-Banking and S/T is far less than the actual number of people employed in the industry. Senior bankers even admit that many analyst hires are superfluous, and that the amount of work that needs to be done could be done far more efficiently by fewer people. And yet, there are still hordes of people trying to "break in" to a lifestyle that demands consistent 80+ hour weeks of often mindless busywork. There is no real justification for this other than money, and the sooner people come to terms with this the better. The OP makes a great point that if this excess brainpower were diverted to, say, cancer research, the world would benefit far more than having 1000 extra monkeys who know how to model and aspire to be nothing more than rich. I'm not saying that finance is bad (I will likely end up there myself one day), I'm just saying that we should call it what it is. Beyond the baseline needed to maintain a stable, liquid economy, the value-add to the world of extra people in finance is pretty much nil.
+1, finally.
More seriously, "modern finance" and "modern medecine" are fields of knowledge, not professions. It is stupid to compare them.
As for the value of financial markets, anyone who says they're not useful for growth has never worked for a small company.
The financial industry is critical for the welfare of this country and others. Poverty and starvation are the norm for human existence. Only recently have some of us lifted ourselves out of that trend. Now name, of hand, how many countries have been able to do that without free and sophisticated financial/capital markets?
Now look at all the poverty stricken nations. How many of them have free and complex financial markets?
Modern finance may save as many lives as modern medicine and certainly more than firefighters or musicians.
Think about it.
Correlation does not equal causation. A free market is a necessary condition for economic prosperity, however a complex financial system probably hinders growth.
Modern finance may save as many lives as modern medicine? Get real. A free and competitive market combined with low barriers to entry lifts people out of poverty, a financial plutarchy keeps people in poverty.
Hey, no one ever said anything about plutarchy or disparity of wealth. And yes, I also took statistics but your point doesn't disprove mine.
Rather than get into an argument, why don't you list all the nations that enjoy a high standard of living according to the life expectancy, gdp per capita and years of education. Then we can see which ones don't have access to complex financial markets and therefore can't launch IPO's or attract large volumes of private foreign investment. Oh wait, the World Bank already has an index that measures all that. Looking at the HDI, how many nations are there outside the top fifty with access to international financial markets?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Ind…
There's India, for one, and China...and that's pretty much it.. Now look at the bottome fifty. How many countries there have easy access to the markets?
Hmmm, there doesn't seem to be a lot of IPO's or PE deals going on in Sudan or Afganistan. Seems like it's tougher to feed your family without a job and it's tougher to find a job when you in a place that can't access international flows of capital, even if the barriers to entry are low and there's no plutarchy.
My point is, medicine saves lives that are threatened by disease or illness. But a general increase in wealth benefits everyone. Statistically, many lives can be saved by the increased wealth financial markets generate. That was a response to the OP's argument that markets and investors don't do anything. Finance may not save more lives than medicine but it does make a positive change in the world.
"Investment bankers don't change the world"
Actually, they do.
Even the most skilled fireman or teacher or doctor or lawyer is far less likely to have an impact on the economic future of a community, city, region, country or continent than the investment bankers and portfolio managers who decide how to allocate enormous amounts of investment capital.
But the fireman, teacher, doctor and lawyer are each far more likely to have a life-changing impact on an individual, and more likely to have their work understood (even if only at the most basic level) by members of the lay public.
As has been said, society needs capable people in all professions in order to work well.
Yeah the only problem with that is they would have to be reasonably intelligent..I tend to go for the blonde bimbo lol
Dude just because you didn't get into Ross doesn't mean you have to give up on finance lol
modern medicine wouldn't be able to save lives if it wasn't for the financial markets. pharma's wouldn't be able to raise capital to fund new R&D for innovative drugs.
Well I guess we must agree to disagree then. Your point regarding "useless" monkeys is invalid in my opinion. The reason junior bankers work so many hours is because banks believe that less people equal more quality, hence they would pay one person loads of bills than hiring 10 for the same task. You might think that modeling or doing spreads is easy work and is monotonous, but that is not what bankers are paid for. If "banking" was that easy, companies would just do it themselves rather than hire bankers. Similarly, it is not mindless; linking spreadsheets and just crunching numbers without any sense is mindless, but that is not what "bankers" do. In fact, these bankers must look at the big picture and see if the numbers make sense and are profitable for the company in question. So you can't say that this work is less meaningful than cancer research.
I believe that we need smart people in all professions; we need doctors and we also need bankers, we need teachers and also soldiers. Now that we have started this debate, lets discuss your point regarding "excess brainpower", because the truth is banks are under-hired. Why do you say it is excess?
You've gotta be a troll.
My brother-in-law is a fireman and he is a real baller. He drives a Nissan 350z and can get all the girls in town!!
Hahaha true story
I don't think anyone on here realizes how fucking boring being a firefighter is...
We mythologize firefighters, teachers, etc. But how many of them actually are worthy of it?
The firefighters in my town rarely respond to fires. They are mostly of the 2-story house variety and they can flood them from the outside. Minimal danger, the rest of the week they sit around the station and play softball.
Many of my teachers were worthless, lazy and dull. I was lucky to have 2 who I leaned on for support and they certainly impacted my life. But most are mediocre.
To change the world you have to do something radical, it's not a matter of picking a career.
Inventors and entrepreneurs are prime examples and Mother Teresa was pretty amazing.
I know a fairly wealthy money manager that is a part-time police officer. I know a successful trader that quit because he followed his passion to become a full-time EMT/paramedic (and is doing quite well).
And yet you come across threads/posts (on this website for example) of successful pilots wishing to leave flying planes and join the finance world.
Everyone does something different.
We all have talents and dreams that extend beyond the realm of the finance world.
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