Consulting and the Big 4s
Hello everyone,
a newbie here - still learning the norms of this 'civilization'.
I'm considering a career with the Big 4 advisory business and was wondering if I was able to seek some reviews on the big 4s -which one (in more recent times) is a better business to work with and why?
Also, I'm coming in from the industry and hoping to join at the SA level. Not an accountant, but have an undergrad degree in Accounting and an MBA. What is the best path (and requirements) to get promoted at the manager level (I understand each would be slightly different from one another)? Are industry certifications (besides the CPA) mandatory/seen as a plus?
Also, I recently came across a lawsuit against one of the big 4s - a class action. What are your views about this lawsuit relating to the type of environment the big 4s offer? Is this a concern working at the big 4s ?
Thanking you all.
The general impression that I get is that Deloitte is #1 of the big 4, followed by PwC. Deloitte acquired Monitor, and PwC recently acquired Booz, allowing them to step further into strategy work, but they keep those divisions separate from the legacy consulting practice in most cases. Both Deloitte and PwC have aggressive 2020 goals and as far as I've heard, both are on track to get them. Their consulting units are very large, and work can range from strategy (interesting) to multi-year implementations (boring).
If you're in a big 4 consulting practice, CPA won't really make much of a difference, your MBA will matter more.
What practice will you be joining? That will help to determine which firm may be a better fit.
What is the class action suit about - overtime pay? If so, that suit is common among professional services firms, not a big deal.
thank you cvsdjs. Interesting to hear about Deloitte and PwC's long term vision. My experience is in financial risk management so I'd be looking at leveraging that one of the big 4s. Each of them have opportunities in that area. Is it easier to pivot towards strategy work given my background is not strategy focus ? Strategy to me is the traditional 'management consulting' type business correct? At the moment, I'm targeting risk/advisory consulting given my background.
What about EY and KPMG ? Are they any good?
The class action relates to gender discrimination regarding pay/promotion. I happened to read some of the case's history in the submission (available online) and it was pretty disturbing to read some of the allegations leveled against the staff at that firm. I guess its no different at any other organization for that matter and the broader financial industry as whole.
Also, I didn't address your other questions from earlier in the feed. Strategy is traditional management consulting. The firms best known for this type of work are McKinsey, Bain and BCG (seen on here as "MBB"). Other firms do this work, but they're not as well known for it.
It is possible to move from a Big 4 firm to MBB if you have a solid resume or if you're an expert in an industry they are focused in. It's also possible to get staffed on strategy projects if you sit in another practice at the Big 4, but you have to network your way into it.
I don't know much about EY or KPMG's consulting arms unfortunately.
Could you tell us more about the Advisory function you are considering? No one can offer much insight without that information.
The Big 4, and other professional services firms, get sued by former employees all the time.
EY just acquired a small strat firm: Partheon Group I think was the name.
thanks InterestedinVC. I did mention my focus is financial risk management - many aspects of it, market risk, liquidity, credit risk etc. That is the kind of work i've done in the past in the industry, however, looking to explore those opportunities from a consulting point of view. Strategy has been mentioned to me a few times, but is strategy different to these specialized focuses that I just mentioned? I'm assuming its more overarching these areas.
so question really is :
1- how are these big 4s w.r.t. market/credit/liquidity risk type work - I do know each have practices that focus on these areas. I know the revenue wise ranking for each firm, but am interested more so in the type of work, culture/environment + future opportunities
what would be the pathway from an SA to Manager and further ahead - qualifications/timeframe/certifications etc.
Are there any caveats w.r.t the way business is carried out at these firms (eg. I heard elsewhere that big 4s are designed in a way that most people leave the firm at SA level)
thanks
I can only answer #2 & #3 for you:
The path at big 4 is as follows: analyst (2 yrs) > consultant (2 yrs) > senior consultant (2-3 yrs) > manager (3 yrs) > sr manager (3-5 yrs) > Partner or director
You start managing revenue (small amounts) at the Manager level. So to get there, you need to be able to manage a work stream and a team of analysts while having solid industry or functional knowledge. Managed revenue and sales targets increase as you move up to Senior Manager, then increase substantially as you become partner. It's true that a lot of people leave at the manager level, but that's common elsewhere too. They probably realize they aren't likely to make partner (or realize they don't want to) or they get a Director-level role in industry with better hours.
It's rare that anyone gets into consulting with a plan to stick around for their entire career. Most people want to get some experience and then try to move up in industry, so I wouldn't be too concerned with the turnover at any level.
Also just to touch on your first question. These are questions you should ask when your interviewing at the firms. You'll want to know that the practice is growing. Ask about market offerings, current projects going on, where they think the industry is heading, etc. All completely legitimate and even crucial questions to ask as you explore a new career opportunity.
thank you cvsdjs, much appreciated. This info about manager level expectations is pretty useful.
Thats definitely one of the questions (future growth plans) I have penned down and it sounds like the progression path/turnover isn't any different to what you see in the industry. Perhaps it may be different in the auditing/taxation side of the business.
In your experience, does a promotion rely on certifications ( I know for auditing side they need CPAs) -e.g. FRM, CFA that sort of stuff besides good work history? The jobs Ive been keen on haven't really mentioned any of these certificates other than advanced degrees in related fields -masters/even PHDs
Thanks again
Certifications don't have any impact on promotion. The only requirement from most firms is that you have an MBA. Most consultants enter b-school after 2-4 years, then they return as a Senior Consultant. Others wait a bit longer, or others enter consulting with an MBA, as you will be.
It's all based on performance, tenure and expertise. At the junior levels (Analyst/Consultant), you need to be good with core consulting skills in order to be promoted (financial analysis, building decks). At the mid-levels (Sr. Cons/Manager), you need to be good with managing a work stream, developing junior staff, meeting deadlines, etc. Beyond Manager, it's all about industry or functional expertise and business development in order to move up the chain and make Partner.
Thanks a ton for these insightful responses, cvsdjs. This is really helpful.
i am a first year advisory manager at big4. came right after MBA as senior, about 20-30% of my class got promoted after 2 years. I think 1 person (that i know) got promoted after 1 year. The only requirement for a promotion is doing a job of a manager + doing "reinvest". As simple as that. 3 years manager -> director (or senior manager) is very doable, based on what I see, as long as you bring in enough revenue.
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