Deloitte Consulting Prestige in Europe

what kind of career are you looking to go into? that's a more important question than just b-school.. fuck preftige

Coming from a German: as much as I like Deloitte and knowing former classmates that went there (not necessarily into consulting) as well as a Senior Partner, all Big4 - including Deloitte - are seen nowhere near the top-tier consulting firms. As regards Germany in particular, the entire Deloitte brand has a hard time considering their audit practice is lacking significant clients, last time I checked they audited just 1 of the 30 companies in the German prime standard (Dax 30). Big4 Advisory from Germany into top US b-school? Might happen, but don't know anyone from my personal experience. But that might well be owed to the different school system here. Most guys get their master's right after their bachelor's degree, and the MBA is still rather atypical. A very high number of the top students even stay at university a couple more years after their masters and get their PhD, following which - unlike in the US - most graduates go into industry instead of staying in academia. Most board members of the German prime standard companies actually have a PhD. As I said... different system over there.

Since I just graduated, I do not know for certain what I want to do down the line, however, I can see myself in finance such as I-banking, PE other buy-side shops as well as consulting firms. I am from the states but have the chance to work in europe and was wondering what my chances are. It would only be for 2 years or so.

Fredbird:

Coming from a German: as much as I like Deloitte and knowing former classmates that went there (not necessarily into consulting) as well as a Senior Partner, all Big4 - including Deloitte - are seen nowhere near the top-tier consulting firms. As regards Germany in particular, the entire Deloitte brand has a hard time considering their audit practice is lacking significant clients, last time I checked they audited just 1 of the 30 companies in the German prime standard (Dax 30). Big4 Advisory from Germany into top US b-school? Might happen, but don't know anyone from my personal experience. But that might well be owed to the different school system here. Most guys get their master's right after their bachelor's degree, and the MBA is still rather atypical. A very high number of the top students even stay at university a couple more years after their masters and get their PhD, following which - unlike in the US - most graduates go into industry instead of staying in academia. Most board members of the German prime standard companies actually have a PhD. As I said... different system over there.

thanks for the comment. I know the big four in general is not considered top tier. I also know that the audit practice is completely different than their consulting practice (at least in the U.S.) Of course it has an impact on the overall financial position of the firm, however, I just wanted to use that as a resume booster, gain formal training at a large firm, gain consulting insight and move on and was wondering whether its more of a resume killer or booster for exit opps and mba school in the states!

BTW: does anyone have an insight what the pay, hours, perks look like over there?

For advisory/consulting at the Big 4, you'd be looking at 38,000-45000 Euros per year (bachelor's degree towards the lower end, master's degree towards the upper end) plus overtime hours. I know of many people that made it to pure-play consulting firms or boutiques after the Big4. Fluctuation a bit lower than in audit or in the US. Moves abroad from the Big4 in Germany are rather seldom. If you'd wanna stay in Europe, you'd better make sure to get that BB, boutique or consulting firm on your resume instead of Deloitte or any other of the Big4.

Fredbird:

For advisory/consulting at the Big 4, you'd be looking at 38,000-45000 Euros per year (bachelor's degree towards the lower end, master's degree towards the upper end) plus overtime hours. I know of many people that made it to pure-play consulting firms or boutiques after the Big4. Fluctuation a bit lower than in audit or in the US. Moves abroad from the Big4 in Germany are rather seldom. If you'd wanna stay in Europe, you'd better make sure to get that BB, boutique or consulting firm on your resume instead of Deloitte or any other of the Big4.

That's way higher than the UK. I know PWC for instance pays 24k-26k pounds for its consulting. People I know in Deloitte as experienced hires make 30k. Shit man, everyone has higher pay than the UK.

Fredbird:

For advisory/consulting at the Big 4, you'd be looking at 38,000-45000 Euros per year (bachelor's degree towards the lower end, master's degree towards the upper end) plus overtime hours. I know of many people that made it to pure-play consulting firms or boutiques after the Big4. Fluctuation a bit lower than in audit or in the US. Moves abroad from the Big4 in Germany are rather seldom. If you'd wanna stay in Europe, you'd better make sure to get that BB, boutique or consulting firm on your resume instead of Deloitte or any other of the Big4.

Can't really chime in on travelling too much since most of the guys I know work in some form of CF/M&A/TS, sorry.

Might be of interest to you - top 20 management consultancies in Germany 2012:

Left numerical columns show revenue in M EUR. Right hand columns show employees. (both within Germany)

Revenue/ capita should give you a rough idea how each firm is positioned.

I heard you get lots of paid leave in Germany, but boy do the Germans work hard.

Thx for the chart! Very surprising that PWC and KPMG made more than Deloitte. Germany has significantly more PTO. I dont think they work harder, they are just more efficient, which makes Germany, GERMANY in my opinion.

25-26 days vacation per year. Unlimited days sick.

well, I guess the answer is taking my boutique investment offer in the states over that deloitte consulting in Germany for the above mentioned reasons. they are not as highly seen as I thought, the money is little, big 4 consulting wont give me a good chance to move up in to bcg, bain, mckinsey... :/ does not seem too promising!

I just started working for Deloitte Consulting in Germany and want to share my point of view since some of the information in this thread is not correct.

If we talk about Deloitte Consulting I assume we talk only about the Strategy & Operations Division (which contains operations, strategy, finance and M&A consulting services). As you might now Deloitte Consulting also offers Human Capital Services or even SAP Implementation all under the brand of Deloitte Consulting. This being sad it helps to interpret the numbers shown in the table about the German consulting market.

Regarding Reputation in Germany, I would consider Deloitte S&O as Tier 2, especially with the recent Monitor acquisition and the strong growth.

The salary mentioned earlier might be true for Deloitte & Touche or for certain Services such as Human Capital Advisory etc. Within the S&O Practice you see salaries for M.Sc. Graduates ranging from around 52 000 - 59 000 Euro (without Bonus). From my point of view salaries within S&O Strategy as well as Operations are among the highest.

If you have any questions dont hesitate to ask

kleindanie:

I just started working for Deloitte Consulting in Germany and want to share my point of view since some of the information in this thread is not correct.

If we talk about Deloitte Consulting I assume we talk only about the Strategy & Operations Division (which contains operations, strategy, finance and M&A consulting services). As you might now Deloitte Consulting also offers Human Capital Services or even SAP Implementation all under the brand of Deloitte Consulting. This being sad it helps to interpret the numbers shown in the table about the German consulting market.

Regarding Reputation in Germany, I would consider Deloitte S&O as Tier 2, especially with the recent Monitor acquisition and the strong growth.

The salary mentioned earlier might be true for Deloitte & Touche or for certain Services such as Human Capital Advisory etc. Within the S&O Practice you see salaries for M.Sc. Graduates ranging from around 52 000 - 59 000 Euro (without Bonus). From my point of view salaries within S&O Strategy as well as Operations are among the highest.

If you have any questions dont hesitate to ask

This is very helpful, thank you so much kleindanie. I am referring to the strategy and operations as well. How much do you travel? If you do a lot of traveling, where do you go? ( I know it depends on the project and client location), however, is mostly domestic? within Europe? or even outside? Also, what are your chances of moving to the top firms such as BCG,Bain, McKinsey after working at deloitte consulting for a while? Does that help you? or rather "damage your resume" ? What are the hours that you put in on a weekly basis? I have a bachelor's degree from a top 5 undergrad business school in the States. I am assuming I would be coming in as an analyst. Do you know what the salary range is for that? I appreciate your help, vielen vielen dank! :)

kleindanie:

Travel is the same as with other consultancies, usually from Monday morning to Thursday evening. For my current project I take the train since its not so far away (you can book first class though). If you have a project in say Berlin you are also allowed to fly within Germany. There are international projects but the majority of work occurs in Germany. Share of international work rises with your experiences since they can sell you better on international projects.

If you are good you can certainly move to MBB. The question i would ask is if i am willing to give up my work/life balance for 10k more per year (pre-tax). The way it usually goes it that you either persue a career within Deloitte or you make the exit after 1-2 years.

As already mentioned work life balance is quite good at Deloitte Consulting. There is only few time for private matters during working days but your also able to catch 7 hours of sleep each day. Usually we try to finish around 8, then go eat and/or gym, and then maybe work 1 hour again (I usually prepare tomorrows to dos, or wrap up meetings i had this day)

With a Bachelors degree you would come in as a business analyst. I actually have no clue what the salary is, but it will certainly be below 50k y year. Maybe around 45k, I know Roland Berger pays around 55k for bachelors i you wanna have a comparison.

Hope that helps to clarify your issues :-)

Yes, you have been a huge help. This may be out of your scope, however, I was wondering if you knew what the hours, pay, work flow, learning curve etc. are of an analyst in the M&A advisory in Germany compared to the consulting work we had previously discussed. thanks a lot again!

Very interesting. I just came out of a target MBA program. The guaranteed compensation as a first year consultant out of business school is actually the highest at Deloitte Consulting, higher than MBB, Booz etc. $135k base, $35k sign-on, $5-10k relocation. That might also include a tuition reimbursement for your second year of business school if you received an offer after a successful summer internship. Just my 2 cents.