Analyst to PM
I've been a buy side analyst for the past 13+ years and generally been happy, but lately I have been thinking about stepping up to a PM role at some point. I have contributed a good amount of PnL to the PM book over the years but don't have a separate book (estimates based on very realistic backtests).
Now I'm clueless how one should approach that move. I.e. what should you include in your resume, if you have a separate document to pitch your strategy and if so what info do you include there, who do you approach (if not through headhunters how do you find bizdev people), etc.
It's probably fair to say I'm not ready for the move since I'm that clueless, but still I just wanted to know at least... Any help is appreciated!
bumping
Bump.
Dude - relax, you do not need to know this.
SM or MM?
MM
I'm sorry, you've been an analyst on the buyside for 13 years and you're just now thinking about wanting to take risk? That makes you at least 35, if not older at this point. This will probably be held against you to be honest, but I've seen people in their mid-late 30s make this transition so it's not impossible. Beware that at this age you'll have fewer "strikes" before you're out.
With that out of the way you sound nice and earnest so I'll try to help out. Put your coverage areas/products on your resume, but not specific ideas. Have a separate document for estimated PnL, sharpe, sizing, drawdowns, etc. for your strategy. It helps if you have all your trades on an excel sheet or something so you can more credibly point to PnL figures even if they're a bit fudged (everybody fudges by 10-15%). The latter two documents (strategy and trades) will be far more important than your resume in my experience.
Recruiters will give you intros to biz dev and to individual PMs. After you have a relationship with biz dev, you can independently check in with them every 6 months to see if there's an opening for you. If you've never managed risk at all, you'll most likely only get looks for sub-PM/jr PM roles under another PM.
I'm surprised that after 13 years at a MM he asks about how to contact biz dev. I would have expected at this point every single BD team from all the major MMs would've hit you up directly at this point, be it for an analyst or a Junior PM role over the years.
I'd find it hard to be so off their radar screen even if I tried. Bizarre.
Is 35 really considered towards the higher end of when people start making PM? I'm 28 and still in SS ER (started career in accounting for 3 yrs) and looking to make the move to the buy side and would have liked to think that becoming PM is still perhaps an opportunity down the line (obviously performance dependent, maybe I don't end up performing well and don't get the opportunity). But hearing that in 7 years I could get passed in because of age is kind of discouraging.
age doesn't really matter. money maker is a money maker. also, pm is just a title at the end of the day. one can be an "analyst" and run a larger book (either an explicit carve or implicit carve ie analyst "runs" 300mm and has handshake % payout deal with pm, but pm ultimately punches in the trades/has final say) than a tier 2 "pm" running $250mm his first time.
i've never seen biz dev say "oh, too old." track record is track record. also, people have different reasons for not wanting to jump to PM role as soon as they get a chance. biz dev not going to take a pass on a risk taking analyst who's had a seat with good pnl for 10 years because he's 36
Don’t have info to actually answer your question, but had some questions for you - given you’ve been an analyst for 13y (at the same shop?), any advice for sticking around that long?
How is your current seat - do you manage a sleeve or work on ideas for PM / centerbook? How are you comp’d - % of PNL on your ideas or purely discretionary to PM?
How has your performance been?
Most of it was at the current place. I think it's a mix of luck and hard work to be able to stay around that long. I don't have my own book it's all combined but the attributions are pretty clear.
Thanks. If okay sharing, if you looked back on all the years you were a risk taking analyst and created a mock book of your longs / shorts in 0 net model, what would the average annual alpha look like?
Also, in a situation like this (really senior analyst but no sleeve), could you share your % payout on the PNL attributable to the names you cover that get in the book?
Is the pod you work for sizeable (in terms of GMV)?
The best deal you'll get right now is probably a sub-PM deal. the problem is you've never actually managed a book day to day before. There's a lot you don't know and it will take time to assure your supervisors that you deserve a lot more risk. new PMs are very much sink or swim and many just lose money because not all the skills of an analyst translate to trading. My recommendation is ask your current pod to let you run your own book and get paid based on your performance ~50% of the pod payout rate.
Agree.. running a book is a lot more than just having profitable strategies
What is typical payout rate for senior analyst with sleeve / junior (sub) PM? Asking for big 3 podshop, if you know ballpark % payout #s
6-15%. Yes, it's that wide.
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