Can you have a successful hedge fund career if you need 7 hours of sleep/night?
On the sell-side I've frequently seen the people who are able to last are the ones who can get by on 5 hours of sleep/night consistently over long stretches of time without significantly affecting their cognitive performance or well-being. Is it the same at hedge funds? And I'm wondering in the context of trying to make a long career, not just a few years as an associate at a big multi-pod shop.
seems to me this is a genetic talent you need really successful make it a career especially if you intend on having a family, and some semblance of life outside, etc..
you'll have to find the right place. i am one of those people that always had an easy time with short nights between work and partying in my 20s.
covering international stuff really fucked up my sleep schedule in HF land. im 90%+ US but hard to avoid the odd weird time zone name.
This is a great question. I think the odds are bad at MMs, but good at LOs/long-biased SMs (where I'm at). If you find yourself at a hardcore shop, do yourself a favor and spend $$ on the top nutritionist & endocrinologist to get your hormones/vitamins/exercise schedule right (some also recommend a genetic test to map out your disease tendencies/optimal exercise/tailored supplement needs) -> this should allow for increased productivity w often fewer sleep needs - I've done it myself and was 100% worth it.
If you fix that & diet and still struggle, only then reconsider your optimal fund working style.
Always have been fascinated by optimizing nutrition / workouts / supplements to get peak performance at work. Anything you swear by or recommend in particular?
It's case by case. I've got my supplements' compositions & dosage tailor-made according to several blood tests.
are you referring to TRT? if so what age did you start if you dont mind me asking
Typically won’t be doing 5 hr nights for weeks in a row as this is only ever necessary during earnings/conference season. At most its 4-5 day stretches during the work week with folks catching up over the weekend. You just don’t go out until 4am Friday/Saturday. Sucks when you’re young, but that’s the tradeoff you make in this career
All the HF AMAs i've read here have reported their hours as being 9 to 6-7pm weekdays with minimal weekend work...i don't see how it wouldn't be possible. i work in MF PE, and i usually get a full 8-9 hours a night. I.e. it’s pod/PM dependent
What are people talking about. People at MMs head home around 6PM, latest is 7PM. This notion that MM hours are like banking is absurd.
there are pods that work more than that (late nights/long hours). wont say its the norm but far from uncommon
Correct. I worked at a pod where we were expected to work ~80 hours Mon-Fri from the office + at least half a day on the weekend (usually from office)
Utterly ridiculous
At a top rank distressed HF and my hours are 7:45am / 7pm avg. - zero weekend work, if I am looking at an interesting name or have a ton on and want to work later in the evenings then that’s on me
You're an idiot. HF is about generating high quality ideas, not pulling hours.
With that being said, i’ve heard certain pods grind (like the candlestick guys, both now and pre-spinout). So PM dependent
Yeah, I'm someone who needs 7-8 hrs of sleep a night and luckily I'm able to get it on the buy side. Part of the value prop of the buyside is the hours requirement is favorable. There are a couple dynamics that drive this…first of all, if your end goal is to find edge and think differently than your competition (the market), then speed matters way less, as opposed to the banking/sellside guys that have to churn out information, models and work that is pretty commoditized. MD's want to rush the pitches to beat out the 5 other banks doing the exact same thing, a PM at a hedge fund is comfortable knowing that the pace of the research and work is slower but the end result is differentiated from the market and will lead to alpha. Even outside of finance, I have lots of friends who work in client facing roles where they randomly get blown up with all sorts of annoying client requests…answering only to your internal PM does wonders for WLB. Also, while the hours are less, you spend many of those hours doing more intense thinking than just monotonously building a model or formatting something. Yeah, I get to go home at 6 or 7 but I'm usually pretty wiped from the nature of the work.
I work 70+ a week at a quant pod but I think in a few years that could come down to 60ish
Any insight on what hours are like at large SMs?
Varies a lot. Really depends on PM. But generally 8-10am -> 6-9pm with frequent weekend work (not imposed but comes naturally if you're trying to perform well)
I work at a small HF run by ex HF star (who is now managing is $$$). Although we are extremely active geographically (Japan, Europe, US), I rarely had to forgo my sleep. I just manage my social interactions according to how busy I'm at work and decided I don't wanna lose sleep and focus as I did in the past. Earnings season means little/absent interactions with people outside work during weekdays, for other periods of the year it's variable but leave room to still enjoy time with people, doing sports and sleep during weekdays.
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