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Probably not honestly. You’re not going to be generating much in terms of ideas year 1 so it will likely be base + 100% of base in bonus year 1. After that depends on your development and how quickly you can get to strong idea generation.
Usually around $400-500K guaranteed and then performance dependent after that. Base is $125-150
This is an offer I got from a C / MLP / Point72 type of shop. Not sure what else I could say if people don’t believe it lol
This is in line. Can get a bit more if 3+2 or 2+3 but its very formulaic and these shops operate under the impression that you are leaving PE for a reason and are generally unwilling to pay a large bump up for someone with no public experience. “Private market approach in public market” type shops will pay much more (600-700) but your wlb is closer to PE hours
What is the hour delta between the "PE in public mkt" shops vs the pods mentioned at these ranges?
I'm putting in ~65 hr a week in one of the former shops but in the mid 300s, and ignored the pods but if its more pay/less hours then maybe I should be looking
400 to 500 would only be if you’re going to be generating ideas from day 1.
Bump, also curious.
Depends on process and PM. If the hiring PM thinks the 2+2 is value add and you're meaningfully generating alpha in your first year (i.e their process aligns very well with the private market approach, and they're big on quality/fundamentals) then you will be paid premium.
Other PMs are much bigger on news flow, sentiment, and trading weekly/monthly catalysts actively. Many processes look fundamental at face value but are hyper-sensitive to tracking specific data that the name trades on and setting up for the perceived earnings reaction. A bit simpler on face value, less on biz quality and more on KPI momentum and input cost trackers and trading on that. These guys aren't going to comp you for your PE xp.
for the PMs in the first bucket, what's generally been the premium / 1st year guarantee?
Would I be safe in assuming most PMs at MM pod shops are in the 2nd bucket?
Also - at quasi-pod shops like Holocene that specifically look for post-PE hires assuming there is that premium you talked about? Thank you!
1) Yes, most PMs hiring fit here. There's a spectrum of strategies here that tilt towards more/less fundamental, but if you look at the random millennium posting for a new(ish) PM 3/4 years running a book its almost always in this bucket. MLP specifically has a lot of guys running like this and when you work for one, it will feel like you're just surviving week-to-week lol.
2) No idea I've never tried to recruit for any of these, I'm on my way out of MM/HF world.
Does PE exp seriously matter to any MM pm? I can understand wanting to window dress a prestige-maxxed sm (or the private market model being closely aligned w/ said sm) but are there rly any relevant skills that you haven’t learned from IB if you’re an incoming model monkey at a large fund? If incoming asso or jr analyst is coming in to learn why would u want to overpay for someone who’s likely going to be gone in a yr or 2?
I actually think a lot of the reason why 2+2 kids don’t go to MMs (apart from the stability) is because MMs don’t really value them more than just the IB guys so you’re not getting paid incrementally for that (which from your perspective will feel like a shame).
In Citadel terms, you probably come in at an associate level and my guess is 400k first year guarantee at most. After that you’re looking at ~200k base and discretionary bonus which believe it or not, truly can be 0 in the MM world if you’re down. I don’t think many people fully realize that when coming over.
Yeah, also the skillset can just be completely misaligned when you’re not betting on business quality or structural thematics that you can ride in PE…
What matters instead of eg structural thematics? What do you look into?
I think that's fine. I'm calculating for comp in years 3+ of my MM journey (assuming I last that long) vs. years 1-3 when I'd likely make a slight discount to PE.
It’s actually impossibly difficult to forecast MM comp. So it becomes very difficult to do the PE vs MM analysis. People will shit on me for saying this but I genuinely do think PE -> SM -> MM is a much better path (to the extent you can get a job at a good SM).
The SMs will care more about your PE experience as they pitch themselves as slightly more long term investors. Comp is so much more stable but probably lower at 4-600k in first couple years.
But at least you get to see how public investing is like and learn the ropes before jumping to an MM. If you’re at a good SM making the move to MM, the MM will give you a decent first year guarantee (provided you’re at a fund doing well) so you make back some $ there anyway. And if you realize publics is difficult and you’re not ready for the MM life, then at least you can cruise in an SM until it goes tits up.
I will say this: people continuously don’t recognize how challenging and unstable the MM life is. It’s very hard to fathom how unstable it is until you’re in the seat.
granted I haven’t hired one in maybe 2y, i’ve had many juniors coming from pe on my teams over the yrs… these guys still come in as a junior role, but the slight expectation is that they can ramp up faster than i-banking juniors… if they made 400k in pe, 500-600k is fair y1, but after that more variance…y2 could be 750k or 300k…i didn’t make anything close to that my first yr mid 2000s, then i got 0 bonus y2 and considered quitting…quite glad i stuck it thru…but yes all pm’s have mental cap on how much a 26 yr old should make. 7 figures and up requires sleeve/payout, which could take 2-4 yrs to get
as sr pm that knows the model inside out with multiple guys running books under me it’s pretty difficult for us to have a donut…i havent had one since early 2010s…so i take care of my juniors. every firm has a handful of pms like myself running big teams…to the extent that u can, try to work for one/diligence as much as possible
and no one is taking pay cuts lol
I would say the caveat here is that you're a tenured PM running a big team, most hiring PMs are not
For every big PM like u, how many 32 year old PMs running 3 person pods are there per platform would u say there are?
How large is the team
300-400k max
quite a few ex-MFPE guys (2+2 / 3+2 / 2+3) at Cit / MLP / P72. would be shocked if they all took a paycut to go...considering MFPE ASO2/3 comp is >$400.
Not that many bruh.
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