I’ve been on the job just over a year (as an analyst obv) and have found that Associates fall into a handful of categories or “archetypes”, kind of like Meyers Briggs or something like that. Anyways, would be interesting to hear if you have a favorite type to work with or have found other archetypes that are out there.
Ranked in my preference in order of who I like to work with
- “Partner in Crime”. Pretty self-explanatory. They’re in the trenches with you, share the workload pretty equally, even though they do take off on some weekends that are less than ideal. They check your work, you check their work. Dream team stuff here. Will cover for you when needed. Helps to manage expectations of seniors and will push back on unrealistic asks.
- “Fact Checker”. This type is a great asset to have assuming you’re a decent/good analyst. They will diligently check your work and ensure the final work product is top notch and airtight. While they typically wont get their hands dirty in the sausage making, but they will jump in as needed.
- “I Got This”. Associate that is either (a) trying to prove themselves, (b) realized you are getting destroyed on other projects and has just decided to take over, (c) thinks you’re incompetent and doesn’t trust you, (d) is not capable of asking for what they want or sucks at delegating. Great to have some of these associates around, but they generally won’t keep you looped into what’s going on.
- “The LLC”. These are pass-though entities. They generally don’t add extra work, wont check your work, or push back on stupid asks from seniors. However, they will send your work up the chain, effectively insulating you from any mistakes that make their way up to MD’s, as they will take the blame for any issues. These guys and gals are usually on their way out the door and just waiting around to leave for greener pastures.
- “Center of Attention / Brown-Noser”. Want to make sure their presence in meetings and email chains is KNOWN. They need to be seen as “adding value” no matter how irrelevant their contribution is. Some of these guys and gals can add value in a good way, and others are closer to “The Liability” as described below. Their bonus is always at the forefront of their mind.
- “Graphic Designer”. These are some of the more annoying associates to work with. They have strong preferences on color combinations and page layouts that nobody senior to them really cares about, and often aren’t really able to articulate what they’re looking for until they see it (this archetype is also a type of VP). Creates unnecessary iterations but end work product often will magically come out looking pretty sharp.
- “Thought Leader”. Different than the "Graphic Designer" who only cares about visual presentation, the thought leader creates a significant amount of extra work by “thinking outside the box” and adding pages to highlight different points or brings to light a recent article they read. Tries to “play up” to VP level, but just ends up burning out their analysts more quickly with new pages getting added to the appendix for when the VP reviews and subsequently killed from appendix when the MD reviews.
- “The Liability”. They aren’t able to get anything right. They didn’t do finance before their MBA and didn’t bother to learn any technical skills but still managed to make it into your group. You have to check all of their work, and they will often send emails that are damaging/creates more work to explain to seniors what's going on and harmful to the process. They also have tendencies to compensate for their incompetence by trying to lead meetings and say the wrong thing with the MD’s on the call. Can be a major headache to manage. Often don’t get put on the big deals, so just have to deal with them on the internal staffings.
- “Court System / Judicial Branch”. Particularly challenging associate to work with. Any mistake you make, you will be directly held accountable for. You will be penalized when you miss a subsequent event when spreading a comp, and will have to scrub through all of the work you’ve done in the past month to make sure you didn’t make any other mistakes. You will have lost trust any time you make a mistake and have to earn it back by being error free for months. They generally will not check your work and will only find errors because someone senior to them catches a mistake and comes down hard on them. They will deflect and blame you (even though they signed off on the work). This archetype is more prevalent in VP and upwards, but can start to manifest at the associate level.
Lmk if you agree/disagree with these or if I missed any
Edit: One that I missed: "Middle Management" (I guess I generally think of this as more a VP archetype - which is why it didnt make the original list). They manage the process, present to seniors and clients, and keep the analyst on track to get the deliverable ready for 10 days from now. This archetype will then calculate that a first cut is needed by the end of day one so they can review, then a second cut by day two so it can go to the VP by day three. This allows time for the VP to give comments by day 4. This way, by day 6 a copy can be sent to the MD. Which will provide ample time to complete the deck in time for the management presentation. Ensures that new VDR postings are saved down within 15 minutes of posting (lol). Translates asks from seniors into digestible bite-size pieces for feeble-minded analysts who cant conceptualize how to put together a TAM slide on their own. All jokes aside, can be great asset to have as they make the process move smoothly and make you feel like a great analyst by checking through their daily to-do lists.
I have come across #9 before, but have usually referred to them as "bitch ass mf"
Unfortunately run into the LLCs more often than not - this is spot on
Pretty insightful
As a current pass through entity...can confirm lol
I was all of these as an Associate, depending on the mix of MD + Analyst + project type.
At least you’re honest lmao
I've often found that the brown noser and the judicial branch are the same person. Brown noses anyone above them while taking credit, craps on anyone below for the slightest mistake.
This feels like it leaves off everything that’s actually the associates job (e.g., sketching out slides, deciding which slides to include in presentation, presenting stuff to clients, managing the process, etc.)
Updated.
Lol, well played
The higher number on the list, the more likely you are to be an MBA associate lmao
The “nit guy” - wants to show that he adds value by providing a bunch of dumb formatting comments that no one cares about… but totally skips over the fact that you used the wrong EBITDA
This. “just a few nits…” stfu pussy
Very accurate. I was Type 1. Other Associates made fun of me, told me I wasn't "getting leverage" over the analysts. My view was (and still is) that Associate is a weird ass position to even exist at a bank. I don't think it really has a standalone role . . an Associate's job is to either be more of an analyst or be more of a VP, depending on experience and situation. So I basically just became another analyst to start out, and eventually became the more VP-style associate.
A lot of my associate classmates were in the Type 5-7 range and pissed everyone off. It was like they needed to justify their associate title/pay somehow. And it's like, no dude, learn the job first before trying to tell others how to do the job.
I wish more associates were like you. The first rule of managing people should be to never ask someone to do something that you don’t know how to do yourself (within reason). Obviously, this becomes less applicable as you become more senior, especially at the CEO level where you are theoretically responsible for every aspect of your company, in which case you simply can’t be an expert in everything.
That caveat aside, I think this rule is extremely relevant at the associate level where there is often a lot of overlap between the two roles. How can you check someone’s LBO or answer any questions about making one, let alone have any conception of how long it takes to make one, if you have no idea how an LBO works? I encountered this exact issue with an associate recently. It’s very frustrating to me when incompetent associates try to mask their shortcomings by outsourcing those very skills to analysts who are more competent than them. In effect, it’s almost like cheating in school. Sure, you might benefit in the short term by “passing” the assignment, but if you don’t learn anything from it, it’s going to bite you in the ass one day when you are genuinely expected to possess that knowledge / skill.
The associate I work with the most is a combination of 2 and 6 but can also step up and be a partner in crime. The attention to detail is ridiculous and he will literally double-check every single note in Excel for sources. He will even comment on the formatting of the note and ensure that it is always correct. He's the type of guy that will ask you to redo everything even if nothing is wrong, just for it to be exactly in line with his own preferences. Meanwhile, the guy is extremely skilled so even though it's always painful in the moment to work with him, you do learn A LOT.
He's also the type of guy that will never ever let you get fucked over. He'll push back hard to VPs on ridiculous requests or timelines. If you are swamped on other projects, he will always step in and take over or push the timeline. He also knows that his extreme formatting requests aren't the most important thing, so while he will always force you to do it, he will never make you work late on them. Overall amazing guy to work with.
Echoing this point - I have no problem with someone demanding absolute top quality / perfection, but for good reasons and when it makes sense for the project team. The difference maker is that they understand that this standard of work takes its time, and prioritise top quality over pure delivery speed (as is helpful for deals). I was also at a firm / team where in general the MDs and Ds stuck to 50% fewer slides than other banks, sometimes with no appendix, but made sure that each slide stressed a crucial strategic point for the client. (Helped that our MDs / Partners were rain-makers as well.)
Still getting there, but as an intern my Analyst 3 taught me to be disciplined and rigorous and always had my back. It was a pleasure to work with him, and one of my proudest achievements during my summer was when I heard he started calling me ‘his intern’ to others around the bank.
As much as I hated a majority of my associates, you missed one:
The Golden Child:
This person is smart, was an A to A and is about to be promoted to VP. At least you think so—people have been saying that since you were an intern and it still hasn’t happened. Oddly enough, they seem to have VP responsibilities and and work very closely with 2 MD’s as “their guy/girl” but somehow they don’t have the title. They predict every twist and turn in the process and when things get too hairy they tell you to take Friday night off so they can relive their analyst days. This person simultaneously is a godsend, savior, and a core reason you want to leave IB. Shit, if even this guy/girl can’t move up the chain faster or avoid having Friday nights blown up there really is no hope for you in this industry.
And then the golden child inevitably becomes the insufferable VP who doesn’t do any work but coasts on a good internal reputation
Did you take this from the "douchiest people on walls street by undergrad" post?
That was a classic. https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/off-topic/ranking-the-douchiest-p…
No I didn’t, but that’s funny that we described the same person basically. Seems most offices and analyst classes have at least one person who is smart, well adjusted, and well liked lol.
Finance and people are so weird.
Needs a sequel visiting on VP archetypes
Heard
How about my associate who forwards things to do to me and say "can you take a crack at this" without 0 guidance, which is fine. Then they panic when you give them a fulsome draft where they have barely feedbacked and started to give comments like "Global change, change all $ to US$ and mn to M"?
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