DRW Trading Reputation

They're very good. They recruit at my school too, but it's really hard to get a job there. I know one guy who's going there full-time (he interned at an IB in NYC)..picked them over a few IBs' fixed income trading programs and Citadel. Prestige is high, but I think most people want to stay after the two years (since you can make a ton at a prop trading firm..they pay much better than an IB does) so exit opps aren't as much of a focus for most people. I really liked that they had a long (I believe it was 6 months) training program..shows they actually teach you A LOT (whereas banks' training programs are like 6 weeks) so when you get to the desk, you'll be useful immediately versus fetching coffee for the first 6 months like I've heard trading analysts do at IBs.

I attended their presentation and thought the people were very cool. Also, they pay really well..$75k base. No idea what bonuses are but I'm guessing through the roof.

I'd go to DRW over most IBs trading programs. Only downside for me would be living in Chicago. But the fact that rent is SO much cheaper there than in NYC would probably take the cake. You can live in a 1400 square foot apartment in Chicago on analyst salary, easily.

They are not prestigious, and certainly easier to get a job from than a BB fixed income desk. I don't where this guy is getting this nonsense from. But, if you want to work in Chicago in a smaller environment I guess it's pretty decent. I'd take it over Citadel because Citadel is a revolving-door sweatshop.

Almost any BB fixed income desk is better than DRW. Their vaunted "training program" is just Hull's Options textbook.

Most of the people there are from Ivy-reject schools.

I don't know that much about DRW, other than that they recruit at my school (UPenn) and my roommate who wanted to do FI trading was rejected by them but received offers from most of the BBs.

The one guy I know who's working there is a genius. He's in the Jerome Fisher Management and Technology program (dual degree between Wharton and Engineering).

I would tend to think that Jgsim's comments are more correct...he seems to know what he's talking about.

LOL

I got an offer for DRW's internship LAST YEAR and turned it down for something non-finance related. Their offices were nice but the stuff they trade (eurodollar options) and the people were a no-go for me.

At my school they recruit a month later than the BBs, so the only people who interview with them are people who don't get an offer with a BB. I didn't really want to trade last year so I (foolishly) didn't apply to any BBs for trading. The "superday" at DRW consisted mostly of dreg from places like UIUC and USC.

"and other top schools like Duke plus Chicago area schools like UIllinois, UChicago, Northwestern." aka Ivy League rejects.

"He posted a comment on another thread saying "UBS is terrible in everything" and his own inability to get any interviews speaks for itself."

Again re: UBS, enjoy Connecticut. Currently have 2nd rounds with Goldman and JP....so yea....

"DRW and Citadel both run 6-month training programs which I would say are better than anything a BB has to offer" 1. At Citadel, there is no promise that you won't get FIRED midway through training (which happened to 50% of the class of '05)

2. DRW uses Hull's Options book. You can read it at the library if you want. If you don't already understand basic options theory (how to derive black-scholes, etc) I don't know how someone can want to be trader.

Final note, stop lumping Citadel and DRW in the same boat, they aren't even on the same planet.

Sorry friend, I have connections from FT recruiting last quarter which have allowed me to skip 1st rounds.

The difference between DRW and BBs is that they favor engineering/math backgrounds (like mine), so I guess if you are an econ major w/ a 3.5 it is harder to get an interview with them. That being said, if you want to trade anything remotely interesting (i.e. credit or commodities), a BB is the place to go.

Citadel is substantially better than DRW, but you have a much higher chance of getting fired, so that is an important consideration.

Bottom line: DRW and Citadel want mathy type people with little finance knowledge, BBs want finance people w/ little math knowledge.

I'm done with this thread. Believe what you want, I really don't care. Fact is I know a ton of people at Citadel and I interviewed with a good chunk of the people that work at DRW. If you want to know more about DRW(what questions they ask, etc.) PM me.

Okay, I actually sort of agree with your last post. The guy I know going to DRW has an engineering background and Citadel does seem to like engineers as well (although they've given offers to plenty of pure econ people..as has DRW).

I'd say Citadel and DRW are somewhat more quant focused that the traditional IBs. But this isn't a bad thing and doesn't justify you saying that DRW is not better than the IBs..it is better (or at the very least equal), just maybe a bit more quantitative..depending largely on what type of product you trade, though. Trading structured credit at JPMorgan is going to be extremely quantitative as well. The most successful hedge fund ever (Renaissance Technologies) is a pure quant fund, and that seems to be the trend..at banks too..just looking at my friends who are going into trading at IBs even, a good number of them are engineering or math majors (or a dual major between engineering and econ).

I think quantitative strategies will ultimately dominate at the ibanks too. That's certainly the trend now. However, the traditional trader is an econ major..so a lot of the senior traders at banks are econ majors and as a result banks do hire a lot of econ or liberal arts majors for trading.

You're right that DRW specializes in Eurodollar option trading (which is a very profitable and interesting area), but they also trade a bunch of other products like commodities. Morgan Stanley speciailizes in commodities, but they also trade a bunch of other products as well.

Personally, I'd much rather be at a hedge fund/prop trading firm since you can simply make so much more money than at an IB. That's why everyone at an IB wants to be on the prop desks..problem is it's usually only senior traders who get onto prop desks at IBs (although this is changing somewhat..IB prop desks are beginning to take analysts, but in very small numbers).

Also I don't think Citadel is substantially better than DRW. More well known and much bigger, absolutely. But substantially better, no. I wouldn't want to work at Citadel "the revolving door of Chicago" either, though.

By the way, I'm getting my masters too (so 5 years total) and I was offered a 2nd year analyst position from the place I interned at (an IB haha). I think that's what you should be asking for if you're doing a masters. Although hedge funds and prop trading firms pay a higher first year base salary than a 2nd year analyst base salary at an IB.

Citadel lost their prestige after having a lousy 2005 and cutting their headcount massively. One guy I know who worked there, said he looks forward to the day when Citadel falls off the bottom of his CV.

DRW is a great firm. Solid training, high base salary for analysts, and lot of responsibilities if you're good. It's probably the second most selective chicago prop firm, after GETCO.

DRW is solid. Most guys I know their are MIT types. V good Shop.

Citadel has a revolving door culture... DRW will teach you the ins and outs of FI trading. If you can get into a solid trading position as opposed to programing you will make more than at a BB. You will have solid 8 hr work days as opposed to IB hours...