Failed to "Break In" at my MBA Program - Next Steps?
I'm currently a first year MBA student at a top finance MBA program (Booth, Wharton, CBS, etc.) and was unsuccessful during the recruiting season and did not land a summer associate internship. My goal is to break into IB, but I'm not sure what options are left.
I casted a wide net during recruiting process but got no love. Do any major banks come back to campus in the spring? Am I shit out of luck? Looking to see what the next best steps are here.
Any feedback on why you were dinged? Also, guessing you go to CBS since it's definitely not the same as the other 2.
Edit: Lol looks like some butthurt CBS grads here - it's like saying "I work at GS / MS / DB"
There is no meaningful difference. Columbia, Wharton and Booth are all fantastic schools.
HEY! MS IS A GREAT BANK FOOL
Dude...he was clearly talking about Goldman
Major banks should be done by end of January. Random middle market / regional might post or set up coffee chats for people who didn't get an offer during January OCR.
Other than asking for feedback with the firms, I think it's helpful to ask your peers whom you trust (not the dickheads who try to fuck you to get that offer - you and me both know plenty of those "finance bro" types in bschool, especially a top one like yours) what they think of you as an IB candidate - do you have the qualities they are looking for. And tell your peers to be brutally honest about their view of your candidacy.
While IB is a numbers game, if you didn't get a single offer with any of the banks, you really should reassess your FIT (notice I say fit, not brain) for the profession.
Any advice you can share on the 'fit' aspect? I am international starting at a Top 20 MBA in the fall and will be recruiting for IB. Thanks.
Sell side, sell side, it's about the selling. IB is a sales job. How do you get people to buy your stuff? You have to make them like you first. That's the "fit" part. IB is like a fraternity (anyone thinks IB is diverse is just delusional), the candidates whom the bankers like get offers.
You are international. You are at a natural disadvantage: 1. first of all, if you are not white, you don't look like them - it's not racism, it's just human nature for people to PREFER to interact with ppl who are like them 2. when they talk about the World Series MVP or how Alshon Jeffrey dropped that crucial pass, you are immediately in that "out" group when your peers start talking about those sports games they watched last night. I think language is never a challenge for international students, but understanding American culture is not something that can be learned very quickly. It's hard and unfair because you grew up in another country, but the bar is still the same because you want to work in the United States - nobody cares that English is your second language, if you cannot add comparable value, why should you be compensated the same as that associate who is American-born.
Few ways to influence (per Robert Cialdini): appearance - if you look like George Clooney, then thank god for that gift, otherwise, definitely dress very well (focus on fit, not brand) - tailored solid navy suits, solid tie with white shirt, nice shoes, get a good haircut, get a decent leather briefcase; similarity - try to relate to your interviewer about anything at all you guys have in common and bring that up in the interview.
Only thing I have to add to this, is not to make the same mistake I see many non-western internationals make, and that's limiting your friend group to students from your region/country, almost to the point of de-facto segregating yourself. Make a concerted effort to hang out w/ the locals even if you feel out of place-you'll pick things up (references, mannerisms, jokes, sports news, etc) much faster without coming off too rehearsed as well as just being more comfortable around the type you'll need to click with during recruiting.
All good stuff but:
>first of all, if you are not white, you don't look like them - it's not racism, it's just human nature for people to PREFER to interact with ppl who are like them
This is literal racism.
Yes, it is. Thank you for saying that.
I came to the US from Asia, and I don't get "triggered" by this or think of it as racism. Same thing would happen back home.
It is racism if you are a brain dead liberal.
At the MBA level, there is a lot of networking required just to get the first round. The amount of interaction prior to interviews for most banks far exceeds the amount of interaction during superdays. If they made it to final rounds with 6 banks, it's hard to believe it's a fit issue.
I'm a second year MBA and just spent the last two weeks coaching the first years during superweek (almost entirely at a specific non-NYC IB hub - Chicago/Houston/SF/Charlotte/etc). Occasionally, there's one or two guys that have the grades, background, are fairly normal, and seem like they should be fine....but they aren't and wind up offerless. It's happens. It's less of a function of them being poor candidates and more of a function of life taking a shitty random walk and that person having poor luck. I think this is probably the category you fall into seeing as how you landed 6 superdays. I know for the guys that interned in NYC last year at in my program (ranked 15-20 range; semi-to-non target) found their internships late in the process (February-ish), so keep on hustling. Echoing other posters who are encouraging your to go after whatever boutique internship you can get (even if it's some shit-tier, no-name shop), land a FT offer, and re-recruit in the spring. It's much easier doing it this way than choosing some non-IB gig and having to explain why you couldn't land a first year internship offer (usually a big red flag, although not as big of a red flag as interning, not receiving a FT offer, and rerecruiting during your second year).
have you looked into tech firms internship programs (amazon, google, facebook, etc...)
Honestly can't imagine any career that's less relevant to IB. It's like asking someone who didn't get a return offer in high yield credit sales if they considered working at the zoo.
Word to the wise, careers rarely go the direction we envision them. Shit happens along the way. It's not the end of the world. The trick is to keep your mind open to any other possibilities.
Limiting yourself solely to IB, especially pure-play on-campus recruitment is suicide. Got my MBA at HBS. Top brand hands down. Had a stellar GPA, solid recommendations. Problem was, everybody in the pool had an identical profile. It's just not mathematically possible to stand out on pure merit and a 60 second impression. Long story short, 80% of placements went out to the "in" crowd, 20% to the "asslickers", while the rest got effed.
Good news is that consulting firms were parked on capus like vultures, hoping to snatch the scraps. Good to check with your career office if any are shopping around. Another option is to grab a coffee with a professor you have a rapport with, and ask about any opportunities at his firm, or simply ask for advice.
In my case, thanks to the efforts of my brilliant girlfriend (now wife) I dropped the IB aspirations altogether, and instead headed to the Valley to take advantage of VC/PE culture out there. The VC's by IB standards, run an erratic, informal recruitment and are fairly easy to crack with right recommendations and a few meet-and-greets. Money isn't IB fabulous, but it's a far more laid back, more interesting atmosphere. We took couple of trips out to San Fran for a few network sessions, and ended up hitting the right people. Keep your mind open to the Valley. We've got tons of good shops out here.
You sound awesome and I am very glad it worked out for you (and your wife!)
when did it go from asskisser to asslicker. wtf?
It is 2019; who doesn't eat ass? HaHa
Well put, bro. Kudos to your wife.
Wow. Awesome girl. I'm curious though, how did she come up with the VC idea? Talk about fringe. Was she of the background?
Solid post, man. Your wife 's awesome. Respect her for sticking it out with you when a lesser woman would have left for a banking guy.
I have a same question as above. I missed my chance to break in during the MBA process. Non-target MBA program with no prior Finance experience, bombed interviews first year and ended up taking an internship with the University's Endowment ($8 billion AUM) stayed on as a full year intern and leveraged it to get interviews with local boutique advisory & PE firms but ended up getting a well paid role in Commercial/Consumer banking that I reasonably couldn't/shouldn't turn down (married with first child on the way at the time) due to timing of offer. Thinking of switching internally to a Corp Fin role and utilizing that experience to prove my worth. I'm open to any advice on how to appear more attractive in the recruitment process, thank you
Top 25 (US News rankings)
No worries, and that's legit (no chip on my shoulder). I appreciate the encouragement really. I am just doing a gut check to make sure i don't give up and sell myself short as far as really fighting and reaching as high and far as I possibly can. That's good advice, i'll spend the time getting sharper and reevaluate my path/choice 2-3 years from now. Thank you TheGrind