Just curious but how big are BB analysts IB classes? From my understanding JPM/BAML are huge, Goldman also pretty big but not as big as JPM/BAML. Is MS the smallest? Seem to hire the least from non-targets amongst BBs and would think its because there's just less spots to go around.
Would be cool if anyone had numbers on BB class size to put things into perspective and also lets you see deal volume per capita.
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At JPM/BAML this summer. Junior intern class seems around 180 across the 11 groups.
MS is c.60 SAs
I didn’t know MS so small. Do they hire a ton FT? If that’s a case, if Goldman has, say 100, per capita in deal volume MS blows everyone out of the water, even goldman. Is that right?
No real FT hiring, A1 classes not much larger than 60 ppl. Just as an example, MS industrials is 30 while GS is c.70 from what I know. Similar ratio more or less across teams. Largest teams at MS London are M&A and FIG at c.45 - 50
MS industrials is WHAT?!?
Bump
This depends on what you define as “IB” - are you including S&T, just traditional coverage/product, what about all the random ass groups that aren’t really “IB” but fall under the bank’s definition?
Also, does this include just NY? All of US? International?
Am at a T2 BB and we had like 150-200 analysts in our biggest HR training sessions/TTS, but that included all US analysts and also S&T/other groups that I wouldn’t consider “IB”.
Across traditional IB (your normal coverage/product groups), I’d estimate we have 100-150 across the US, maybe 75-100 in NYC?
Not a BB but for reference Jefferies has an analyst class of about 75-80 this year.
GS classic NY (main office) has about 125-150 ppl across the various groups per analyst class. You’ll usually lose 3-5 analysts between year 1 and 2 due to attrition so can rough estimate that GS has somewhere around 250 total analysts across its classic groups.
if thats the case and if MS has classes of 60 per class within coverage groups/the M&A group and comparing the 125-150 analyst class size of GS, wouldn't that mean per capita MS WAYYY more volume and deals? I feel like there has to be something wrong i'm assuming here
60 including the M&A group seems a bit off. For context, GS has 7 classic groups: FIG, TMT, HC, CR, IND, NR, RE. That doesn’t even count CMG which is like the mm industry agnostic group and FSIG group which is a bit niche.
Assuming MS has the same capabilities, that would mean on average each MS team only had 9 analysts. A bit unrealistic.
I meant just per class, above you say an A1 class at GS is like 125-150 which makes sense. Someone in this thread says an A1 class at MS is about 60 and I checked his post history, he seems to work at MS. 7 first year analysts on average per industry group at MS seems realistic, assuming we're talking about per class rather than total analysts. I'm sure transpo is smaller/has less analysts than M&A but on average 7 doesn't seem crazy since that would be 14 analysts total assuming equal A1s with A2s. But would appreciate your thoughts on that after what I just detailed
If the above assumptions are right then MS in theory completely annihilates everyone on a per capita basis for BBs (CVP obviously best for per capita) but i'm wondering why this has never been brought up before. A class size literally half of GS yet always neck in neck with them.
Def see your point on this one. Outside of challenging the 60 people a class point, the only other possible explanation I can think of is whether MS spreads its classes between East and West coast more thoroughly or whether the other posters 60 people per class refers to only one of the 2 geographies. At GS I would say 90%+ of classic bankers are in NY, a few groups like TMT and HC will have a greater presence in California. I think there's technically IBD bankers in Dallas and SLC but ngl I have no idea what they do. From what I've seem recruiting wise it seems that MS Menlo is a far larger office than GS.
Other explanation is that MS is David and GS is Goliath and I should really contemplate my capabilities hahaha
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