GS/MS/JPM vs EVR/PJT/PWP
What are the main pro’s and con’s of these 2 categories (BB vs EB)? Curious to see everyone’s thoughts and have a great discussion.
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EVR/PJT/PWP/Any EB besides Greenhill/Gugg all DAY every day. Higher salary, higher analyst responsibility, better exposure to seniors, WAY better culture (incoming Moelis analysts…). The only downside to an EB is your non-finance friends and girls you talk too won’t know where you work. But at that point it doesn’t matter because you are making it rain anyway. I got rejected from every EB but work at a lower tier BB and it’s so big it sucks! My friends at EVR/PJT/PWP/CVP really like the people there.
What’s the point of banking if people don’t know you do it?
What's wrong with Greenhill and Gugg?
Nothing wrong at all, they are just a little below EVR/PJT/PWP in terms of pay & exits
Yup just arbitrarily chose those 3 EB’s. They are all virtually the same tbh, anyone who blows one over the other is likely working there and deeply insecure haha
Every EB is basically the same with the exception of GH/Gug imo. Personally though from what I've heard, EVR/PJT/PWP are just the best mix of overall culture, comp, and prestige. CVP could easily be in this as well but given the 3 year analyst program and slight discouragement of PE recruiting, it's probably a very marginal notch below. But this is all stupid, any EB is a fantastic option and should make anyone proud!
I'd say because EVR/ PWP/ MOE are slightly harder to get a jobs at due to size/ prestige. They're also growing very rapidly and performing as a better traditional advisory firm, whereas Laz is like a small BB trying to be an EB.
For comparability
GS/MS/JPM = PJT/EVR/PWP
CS/BAML/BAR = MOE/LAZ/CVP
UBS/DB = GH/GUG
This is just my personal take, all are incredible options so don’t respond with negativity!
Looks good. Just move RBC to tier one. Thx
The caliber of candidate going to CVP (or in some cases LAZ/MOE) is so much higher than CS/BAML/Barclays, it's not close. Most of the analysts at CVP turned down some combination of GS/MS/JPM and would never consider the other 3 BBs you list--that would be totally unheard of. Your grouping them as equal is nonsensical.
Moelis is officially in that upper tier these days for many reasons
Just last year people were saying pwp was on a stagnant trend. Even considering it only above gh in the eb circle. Why have people suddenly exploded making it a top eb among PJT, EVR, CVP.
They’ve been killing it in revenue, league tables, and exits. Last year’s threads were also nonsense (by people who likely got rejected from the firm). For instance, someone said PWP hadn’t been on any large rx deals when they’d been tapped by the treasury for the airline restructuring like a week before.
Second this, last year’s threads were ridiculous. For context about why they’re being hyped now, PWP had a larger combined m&a volume (by value) than PJT and MOE combined in the first half of this year and had higher Q2 revenue than PJT, despite having fewer employees
Literally no one would take PWP over the three you listed. There’s just a few fanboys on here pumping up their own team.
I would take GS/MS over an EB any day. The PE exits are comparable, but the exits to any role outside of PE are far superior. Big part of the pitch for EBs used to be that there is no group selection, but this is no longer the case for a few of them. Also, you quickly realize that group has almost no bearing on PE recruiting (far less important than bank, undergrad school, and GPA). It is impossible to know what you want to do coming out of college, and I believe having the GS/MS name on your resume is invaluable in case you decide to pivot. My life has taken turns that I couldn’t have imagined as a senior in college, and the GS/MS name has been instrumental in allowing me to land my dream role. I don’t believe my transition would have been nearly as easy if I decided to go with an EB. I almost went with an EB in college but decided against it after receiving advice from an experienced professional, and looking back, I am incredibly happy I listened to the advice. The substantial discount in pay was worth every penny. Rather than taking a pay cut versus an EB, I viewed it as I was buying options on my career. After some unforeseen events, I used that option and landed my dream job.
Might get crap for this, but I would probably give it more thought if offer was JPM. A lot of friends went there and the exits seem materially worse. The groups are also huge (analyst class is basically size of GS/MS combined). On an absolute basis, GS/MS place better, and on a relative basis they place far better.
Agree completely with this. And to be honest, I think the only ones who say EB > GS/MS are the ones who didn’t get a GS/MS offer and went to an EB
edit - or because EB’s recruited earlier. Bird in the hand worth two in the bush.
I received offers from every BB except Barc, UBS, and DB. Picked PJT/EVR. Most of my friends and intern class did as well. The only ones I know that turned down PJT/EVR were for MFPE internships. I only know 2 people that turned down PJT/EVR and that was for GS TMT. PJT/EVR SA are now the largest feeder into MFPE analyst programs. EBs recruit before BBs and they typically get their choice of the best talent. I likely would've recruited for MFPE, but my offer would've exploded and it was way to early for them to accelerate.
GS > Any other bank.
prob like 4/5 top wharton kids would choose eb over bb. would honestly almost say 9/10 but being conservative
I’m an MBA associate at GS/MS, and there is a perception that MBA’s care less about brand value and more about money. This is very largely untrue.
MBA programs in the US tend to have young average ages 25-28 ish , we are only a few years into our career. And most of us (80% ish) won’t stay on until MD. It’s the reason GS/MS is still the most attractive.
IMO what EB you go to says little to nothing about the quality of your candidacy. EBs fall in and out of Vogue based on movements of rockstar MDs (ex. GHL, P&U from Barc -> Gugg etc). Equating your self worth with that seems ludicrous. The guys shitting on GHL today would have creamed their pants over that offer three years ago.
FWIW: At the target I went to, the best talent exclusively went to EBs - even the likes of PWP/GUGG/GHL over GS/MS/JPM/PJT M&A (ik PJT M&A is not a BB but similar timeline) simply bc of how late they recruit. And most guys would be crazy to turn down a $200k paycheck for the chance to chase clout tokens at Goldman. Most kids who do go to BBs are usually diverse (so timeline doesn’t matter) or mediocre/unlucky prospects who did not receive EB offers and are therefore still recruiting in August.
In my opinion, there is little-to-no justification for taking GS/MS/JPM over EVR/CV/PJT, at the analyst level, these days. Pay is miles better. Hours are better. Better experience (or at least more responsibility). As-good-or-better exits - due to the experience and a bit more free time to prep. GS might be a (marginally) better platform for career bankers, but guess where you'd have no problem lateraling after a half-decade at any EB? The contention that 'industry doesn't know who XYZ EB is' is laughable as well - Google has heard of Moelis. Sure, some industrial services client in Des Moines might not be familiar, but if that's where you're lateraling as a third-year VP that's being pushed out, you're way better off at that point with an extra $1mm in the bank than you are with "Goldman Sachs" on your resume.
the WSO obsession with Perella is bordering on so incorrect that I am almost convinced someone started it as an elaborate joke lol
To be fair PWP is killing it this year in 1H 2021, doing better than Moelis Lazard and PJT. I’m at a BB but still gotta respect when one EB is doing well, props to them
GS>MS>EVR>PJT>PWP>JPM