Appreciate any insights on how to approach diligence of firm culture and hours at the associate level. Fortunate to have received 3 offers across large firms (BB, RB) and during the interviews I have really liked everyone I have met.
Thoughts are to ask for another call post offer with an analyst in each team and try ask more directly the hours and culture coming from the top - any thoughts on if this is a bad idea?
I have also tried to connect with past employees that have left, but struggling to get an honest take or much engagement at all.
Appreciate any insights on possible approaches here.
Tried to do the same thing and had virtually no answer from past employees (unsurprisingly).
Ultimately, calling associates was the only way for me. I would estimate that 40% of them were honest with me.
- Would start with vague wording along the lines of "i've had a great connection with everyone so far, curious to hear about your experience with the team's culture / how you'd define it [compared to other teams at the firm/other firms (useful when it's someone who has worked elsewhere before)]". Based on their answer, you should have a feel of how honest they're willing to be, and you can then be more straightforward if it feels right. I rarely mentioned hours directly - at that point, if they don't talk about it they most likely don't want to.
- I also disclosed where I had competing offers, which helped with getting concrete answers when the other person had friends in other banks. (do this only if you can ofc)
- Depending on how long ago you graduated, you could try reaching out to alums
- I also had a coffee chat with the group head about things they think they're doing great and initiatives they're doing to improve what can be done better - that gives you an idea of what matters to them
There are tons of ways to investigate the culture / hours question.
You can also ask about hobbies, interests, weekend plans at the beginning / end of any follow-up conversations you have with people on the team -- the "small talk" can reveal a lot. Being dedicated to hobbies and interests (esp. those that take up time, not some BS like eating at restaurants or travelling) is a good sign. If they have plans with their kids for the weekend for example, that's a good sign. If they have regular extracurricular routines (e.g., tennis lessons twice a week) that's a good sign. Side benefit also is working with a team of folks with interesting hobbies and strong family values will be much more enjoyable, even if the hours occasionally get long.
Another question you can ask more senior members is what they think will make a successful associate on the team. "Intellectually curious", "detail-oriented", "communicative" are good signs. "Willing to grind", "always available", "thick skin" are bad signs. You get the idea.
You can also reference on LinkedIn how long associates have stayed, which provides another datapoint. Do most associates lateral after 6 months? Bad sign. Are there many promotes / people who have stayed for several years? Good sign.
Demeanour during the interview process is also another datapoint. Were they always on-time to your interviews? Did you feel like they were searching for a true addition to the team or just looking for another body? Did they have you meet many members of the team (i.e. they care about who they're hiring, and not just looking to put an excel monkey / body in that they know they'll quit in 6 months)
After all this, you will get a sense or gut feeling of what the culture is like. Go with your gut.
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