Push Back Against Boomer Management / Being Powerless

The current trajectory of Wall St. is alarming. Seeing analysts / junior associates / interns become increasingly powerless / getting taken advantage of (i.e., upper management trying to push back to “old school” culture, management abusing power, laying off recent college grads, intimidation, etc.) gives me flashbacks to being an IB analyst which was in many ways fun — but also one of the most toxic / ridiculous / appalling environments I have experienced.

It seems that these boomers / upper management think they can do whatever they want now that markets have dipped, and go back to a shittier, more toxic culture. 

Fuck that.

We’re not going back to that. I have younger siblings / mentees going through this. And it makes my blood boil.

I’m calling on you younger guys / girls / them to say no to all this bullshit. After all - management has to listen to you because without you workers, management is nothing.

The only reason why workers have increasingly gained rights throughout history is because they pushed back. So it’s really up to you to make it happen. Defy unreasonable working conditions in any way possible.

Make no mistake - you need to work hard. And you need to push yourself. But no need to work in an incredibly inefficient / toxic culture.

At the end of the day, it’s really up to you to force change.

Your choice…

 
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Well do me a favor and have your third parties chill tf out on DD and we might get out a few hours earlier! 

 

it's so funny how current boomers expect "the old days," yet all of the 'benefits' - in terms of the work hard play hard (hookers, cocaine, free language) - have faded overtime... like we have to deal with the BS corporate jargon and buzzwords yet we don't get the benefits of working hard.

 

Could be the worst banking culture of all time. Pulling consistent 2ams only to be forced to wake up early for a mandatory diversity and inclusion seminar the next morning.

 
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IMO this is the biggest reason why young recruits bounce so easily and why my generation tends to have no loyalty towards the firm - I never understood how some of you can admire financial institutions... I am only loyal to those few people who decided to give me an opportunity.

Working with management sometimes feels like those congress hearings where congressmen ask Mark Zuckerberg about how wifi works, they seem oblivious to the need to adapt to a changing world.

Also, management talks about how difficult it is to recruit and retain "talent" without realizing that most of the time is because talented people with enough $$ earned does not like to keep up with management's BS which makes work more inefficient. You can't trap juniors with stock comp that is locked until 2025 and I am definitely not sleeping less than the doctors' recommended amount for next quarterly earnings or the shareholders.

As an analyst at a bank where management loved talking about culture, which seemed to fool a lot of people, and pushes for a 5 day in-office presence, this touched home. However, I will likely stay here due to my profound desire for money.

 

Facts, boomers have completely different value systems than our generation. Theirs is based on old school honour and paying your dues mentality which was instilled into them because they were told it and everyone else believed it as well. In our generation who grew up with the internet, we aren't retarded enough to not realise that firms literally do not give a fuck about you and that once you have enough cash saved and invested, you can bounce and don't have to put up with their boomer mentality bs anymore.

Their generation grew up with the mindset of the only way to make it is to follow the path in front of you and reach the top of the ladder. Ours knows that isn't the case.

 

The internet is only half of the reason that we abandoned that mindset. The other half?

People turning 30 and 40 now are poorer than their parents were at 30 or 40. Social and economic mobility has declined; “work hard and you’ll get rich” simply isn’t as true anymore as it once was. Gone are the days of almost certain promotion and the “golden age” of finance. Young people today work as hard as ever, get less for it, and are slandered for laziness.

Why would we have respect for a “system” that has been weaponized by previous generations against us?

 

“However, I will likely stay due to my profound desire for money”

This is precisely it. Do we wish that the culture would improve? Of course. Are we willing to sacrifice our personal livelihoods over it? Absolutely not.

We — the first-year analysts — have the most to lose by speaking out, and also the smallest influence over culture. However, by the time we become VPs and MDs, many of us will probably adopt the “we were abused, and so we don’t see anything wrong with doing the same to the next generation” mindset. And so, the cycle continues…

 

I actually left my PE with nothing lined up due to poor work environment. No regrets, still thinking about the next step.

 

Think this goes for most industries world-wide. The sooner they die the better, they’re mostly bloodsucking leeches

 
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Op issue isn't boomers. Issue is all the maniac hardos at semi targets and non targets. Since banks are now looking at non target schools and due to sites like WSO and finmeme accounts there are hundred of thousands of non target strivers willing to cut off an arm to secure a spot in IB.  Many are from middle class backgrounds or are immigrants who don't know any better and come from cultures where it's the ultimate move in life to flex "total comp" to one another. 

Send some poorly formatted coffee chat cold emails and memorize the vault question guide and there's a chance to shoot yourself up to the top caste instantly.  

Zero percent chance these kids push back. Hell, many of then actively are willing to sabotage peers.

I've never seen so many awkward, non target hardos in banking than right now.  Good luck when they become future MDs!

 

It's not that I have an issue with middle class people moving up the chain. It's that the current crop of ib analysts is so singularly focused on doing so that they do not push back, have no interest in helping peers, and are obsessed...to a neurotic level with exits and total comp(more than the usual wallstreet culture).   Hence they are prime candidates to take advantage of.

 

glad you brought up that, because somewhat I agree with it: Pushing back on management BS requests will not revolutionize the culture, instead, it will make you be replaced with a hardo (as you pointed out: non-target/immigrant/middle or poor class, etc.). But this also means that those hardos will be the next management, so if you're coming from an Ivy League, then look somewhere else; I like this outlook because it means that all the people that want big bucks and do shit for it can leave the floor for those that want to kill themselves for $$$. Non-targets hardos > lazy fuckers. If there are people that are ready to endure this culture/lifestyle, why tf should we accommodate it when we could simply replace them (and not now, but in future applications prioritize certain profiles).

 

Let the increased number of people from non-targets and more middle/working class backgrounds sacrificing more than ever to break into banking be a sign of how much of a privilege our jobs are. Yes, we work hard, and yes, we suffer some abuse, but it’s true, with a little bit of luck, we’ll likely enjoy an economic security that 99% of people lack. We’re not doing this for nothing.

People who grew up used to worse than I did are willing to endure more abuse to gain these privileges. This makes sense — their relative upside is much higher. As a consequence of being willing to endure such abuse, they’ll cross the metaphorical “picket lines,” accepting worse conditions and possibly lower pay. MDs will love this. It’s an analogous phenomenon to when a country opens its borders and accepts immigrants who will work for a lower wage, because they’re used to worse.

Will this backfire and create more classism in recruitment and networking as a means of enforcing cultural solidarity and pushing back against management? Will an atomized analyst class lose all sense of collective interest and allow for conditions to get even worse? Or, is this all an imagined worry?

We’ll see.

 

People who grew up used to worse than I did are willing to endure more abuse to gain these privileges. This makes sense - their relative upside is much higher.

and their tolerance for pain/suffering is also higher, let's not ignore that.

That's why I'm quite suspicious about people that whine how hard/demanding IB. I assume they got it fairly well/easy in life, because if you come from a poorer background you assume that hard work = more pay. The fact that you're getting paid more = the harder the work it is, so you really see no cons, you take it as a sine qua non.

 

This is so cringe. You’re the problem..

Definitely just an elitist/racist who’s upset there is finally some meritocracy in finance.

“the plebs are breaking in!!!” “Oh no, middle class people who didn’t go to to my alma matter!!”

 

There's an obvious collective action problem here and far more candidates than positions. Banks can easily replace/ding problem juniors. even if some juniors try to unionize or something, they'd just take themselves out of contention for scarce positions. so there'd be an even bigger incentive for candidates to defect. after all, you have no way to monitor or discipline juniors for going along with management. 

i'd also be careful with this sentiment in the post-AI era. I just watched a chatgpt plug-in make a flawless LBO model based on a handful of verbal directions. this blew my mind. At least half my first year analysts couldn't do that shit.  

i grant you that banking is poorly run and juniors can be mistreated. This blows and I hate it. But you won't change it this way. Analysts are better off doing a good job and learning to navigate the politics of their offices. clever junior bankers can improve their lives a ton if they know what they're doing. 

 

Lol guys we have no leverage right now. Due to low deal volume, there’s limited demand for junior IB seats and a seemingly endless supply of new grads / people trying to lateral into banking willing to fill any role. It’s a nice speech by OP but it doesn’t acknowledge reality. You’re all familiar with the phrase “strike while the iron is hot” well unfortunately winter is coming…

 

Traingle Shirtwaist Capital has an absolutely BRUTAL culture but exits are god tier 

 

lol OP thinks hes Captain America with this bullshit

if youve really worked in banking for as long as you claim you would know that the scale of power heavily favours the seniors. You go ahead and push back and see what happens. Theres many other kids that can just take your place, the job does not require a rocket scientist

 

In general, I agree with the sentiment here with a couple caveats. One, you need to synthesize the full context of your workflow in order to push back properly, which means understanding the needs of the deal, client, and your co-workers. Part of this understanding is unique to each deal and can be gained by asking questions and being looped in. The other piece is gained by experience. A lot of work that I thought was unnecessary in my younger years I now know is important, especially as it concerns presentations. Deck building and editing is loathed and largely under appreciated by students and young professionals alike.
 

Relatedly, you should come with an open mind and eagerness to learn. There was a post recently by a very technical intern who didn’t think he had much to learn. That is absolutely insane. I’m going to say something that might be surprising: relative to the strength of your seniors, the strategy and soundness of the auction process, and effectiveness of marketing materials, a banking model is the least important part of any deal. You can be a wizard at Excel coming into the job but you are not going meaningfully informed about any of the other aspects of the job without real world experience. 

 

IBankers all coming for each other's necks now that deal flow has dried up lmao yall thought you were gods in '21. The amount of kids from gay midwestern banks bragging about "muh bonus" was crazy. Go get some equity fam. Otherwise you're just a worker and can and will be treated like shit. Now I own my own shit, nobody can take that from me. 

 

How much equity do you have in closed transaction fees? Okay then. Back to the desk with you boy, my IT consultant needs you to send over 200+ policy documents by 2:00PM and if you don't get it to us we'll walk and your MD will skin you and make jerky out of your body. 

 

Aye. And which of those complaining would trade places with a police officer on the streets of Harlem, or a nurse on an NHS ward, or an air stewardess being yelled at for running out of the chicken dish, or a junior doctor finishing an 18-hour shift?

Sometimes, I remind myself of this when I'm stressed and feeling like this industry isn't worth it. It's no wonder the media and public think we're a joke and out of touch.