Rant - don’t like the person I’ve become
I've only been working for a year and I'm already feeling like a shell of my former self. After coming home from work at night, I have zero energy for anything beyond taking a shower and then opening up Netflix. On the weekends I spend one of the two days running errands, doing laundry, dropping off dry clean, dealing with bills/chores, and the other day working or seeing friends, so I barely have time to pursue my own interests. Some Saturdays I don't even have the energy to go out - I'd rather just stay at home and do nothing and unwind.
I used to be quite active and hit up the gym regularly, but now I only have time to go once a week. Junior & mid-level people on my team are all quite out of shape and the culture is quite brutal - boss is always sending emails day and night, weekdays and weekends, and expects his underlings to do the same. I thought I could take the long hours and long nights when I signed up for this job, but they fucking suck. I look at myself in the mirror and realize I don't like the person that I've become, but it is hard to swallow that maybe I made a mistake chasing after brand names and prestige and exit opps and what not. I feel quite miserable. Just needed to rant.
Prospects and interns choose your career based on true interest. I wish I pursued another path that’s more interesting/entrepreneurial/risk-taking. Now I lament I spent my college years chasing after something so meaningless. I can rationalize to myself that I gained some transferable skills over the past year like multitasking / modeling / PowerPoint / financial analysis but who am I kidding, those skills you can pick up elsewhere, excel is archaic compared to python and therefore I’ve just been learning about an archaic tool.
I appreciate your perspective and reflection. You are at the very beginning of your career arc. The path is not linear, sometimes as a result of external forces out of your control, other times because you induce a change because of a reshuffle of priorities. In the present moment, you may feel like you’re in a terrible place, but two years from now-ten years from now-this will be a blip. If you are in a better place by then (I’m very sure you will be), then you’ll even snicker at yourself for how terrible you felt in the moment. What a gift to fail upwards…try to enjoy the journey by savoring the good moments. Good luck
FYI was at one of the grindiest banks (if not the grindiest) in my 1st year and had 8-10 weeks in a row where I was logging 110+, peaking at 145 in one week. I legit had so little time for myself that I didn’t have time to do laundry, so I ended up buying a month’s worth of underwear from Uniqlo LOL. Was so burnt out and wanted to quit every day. Looking back am so glad I didn't. My exit opps, and where I ultimately landed, were so much more versatile / better than my peers who only did 1 year (or less). I did two years. I genuinely learnt so much in my last 18 months of banking, and got insane deal flow / responsibility during that time. Not necessarily making a hard rec on what to do in either direction - just offering some perspective
And what exactly did you do working 145 hours in a week?
any tips on getting through the earlier years of IB?
A few:
1. Keep perspective. No career out of undergrad makes as much money on a nominal basis other than tech, and finance outscales tech pretty quickly. Most other careers take much more school, or are actually intelligence-gating (robotics, engineering, etc). You're getting paid ~$200K to shut up, take call notes, re-align logos, copy and paste from already made templates and link stuff in Excel. There are undoubtedly millions of 21/22 kids in Eastern Europe, Africa, South Korea, etc that would genuinely lose a limb to get the opportunity you have in front of you.
2. Understand that adversity breeds success. Hardship is necessary to grow. If IB breaks you then that's fine and you shouldn't feel any lesser, but just know that it doesn't break some, and those in the latter category are the ones that will have +/-2 standard deviation outcomes 5-10 years down the road.
3. Quickly learn to separate your identity from your accomplishments. There is a Christian proverb that translates somewhat to "there is a difference between who you are and what you are. You are a human being, but you would not walk up to a crowd and introduce yourself as a human being - that, of course, is already understood." Analogously, you are an investment banking analyst, but the more you feel the need to express this in contexts outside of work, the more toxic your job has permeated in your life. If you've traditionally feel the need to be validated with grades and compliments, you will gain 40 pounds and/or be the first one out of the door in the next 12 months, deeply unhappy. De-couple now or do it later anyway and by then, with a completely warped shape (physically and mentally)
4. Invest in sleep. Whether that's dry cleaning pickup & delivery, dropping bands on the perfect mattress and pillow, buying the Calm/Headspace app, getting a space warmer, buying sleeping pills, cutting down on late-caffeine - you need to figure it out and you need to figure it out fast. Sleep is king. It is a luxury and a premium. Do not be the idiot that goes out every weekend when they're free because your body needs to heal from sleep deprivation first, not from the alcohol you just consumed. Every extra hour you can squeeze out when it's easy/medium translates to enduring an extra week when it's tough. I only recently started feeling like I did before my 1st year of banking. It took a lot of time to unwind that damage
Can always lateral to a different group or shop. Reach out to some people and put some feelers out. You don’t have to be working consistent 90+ hour weeks.
I’m at a MM outside of NYC/SF. I get paid street, and average 65-75 hours typically a week. I have time on most weekends and even weekdays to go out, hit the gym, etc.
Yeah, to your point, I don’t have the most ‘prestigious’ name on my resume and may not have all the exit opps in the world, but I’m not feeling like I’m burning out, am still getting paid the same, and I can always lateral to a BB and/or pursue an MBA in the future. Just my 2c
As a student, MMs are sounding better and better the more I read on this forum
it's group and bank dependent.
Which firm?
that's all I really want is the ability to workout for an hour everyday and have weekends free
I was in ur position but switched to DCM from coverage at my BB and am much happier because of the better WLB
Pay is the same too
I was in ur position but switched to DCM from coverage at my BB and am much happier because of the better WLB
Pay is the same too
I am 18 and I know this, I preface this with that I want to get into a specific niche field of finance. I can't see myself taking the traditional path as is so touted here. Structures, systems, norms and expectations are man-made, cloakative and brittle. I have no real advice to you other than if you know yourself deeply, and develop true self worth, you can rise to see how bullshit the momentarily-seeming grand and almighty institutions and systems are, prestige, exit-opps, brand, it's all bullshit, all man-made. You can make anything you want happen if you know where to look, you just need the balls to take it. Most men in finance - Hell most in general - do not have the confidence to do this. And so they end up like the ones you describe, out of shape, sad, hollow. I am more scared of this than I am of not "optimising exit-opps" or some bullshit. I don't know how old you are, but you probably still have time. Whatever system or bank or prestige or pathway or whatever you look up to, remember that it is - at its core - just man-made. So be a true man, and you can make your own way. Take a leap of faith. It's exhilarating, trust me, and that is what life is for.
Part of the reason I chose trading… offer is at a “non-prestigious” MM bank not in NYC. But it pays street (110k base An0), lower cost of living, and no weekends or days longer than 9 hours. At the end of the day, no name or salary is worth your happiness/ wellbeing. Would encourage you to look to move elsewhere
,
It's funny, on the surface I feel very much the same - I got fat, do nothing on the weekend and got caught up in the prestige hustle. But you know what? It was MY choice. It was I who wanted to do cool shit, and get crushed, and live the "IB life". MY choice. And now I have agency, I have responsibility, I have power. I am getting stronger every day that I am crushed. I have money, I can take care of the ones I love. I have "friends" I can shoot the shit with. People respect me - or at least they do no longer view me with absolute disgust. So fuck my health. Fuck my so-called hobbies. I didn't sacrifice so much just to be back where I started, in my room, alone. I gladly gave all of that up, and I will give even more away. And when there is nothing left, I will be reborn.
You lost me at, "So fuck my health." If you keep thinking like that you're not gonna be reborn anywhere. I think I get what you're trying to say, but take it down a notch, you only have one body.
Sure, I'm not going to literally kill myself. But I refuse to feel sorry for the choices and the sacrifices I made - the ones I chose to make.
Weird
Don't fucking monkey shit me because the guy above is a fucking LOSER
Cope + seethe + pound sand + kick rocks + touch grass + ratio
I have similar experiences to yours, but at what point do you realize the sacrifices have to start paying off, and I mean in terms of actually being happy with life and experiencing it as you truly would want to?
"fuck my health" might be the dumbest thing I've read on this site
Bro sounds like a supervillain XD
Welcome to adulthood. Enjoy the ride for the next 40 years until retirement.
I have a couple of suggestions that I believe may help.
#1: Define your life's purpose: When I was younger, I sat down and wrote out all the goals and accomplishments I hoped to achieve out of life. They can be tangible, but I often find the most meaningful are ones related to character, morals and achieving milestones that will positively impact the lives of those you love. From there, work your way backwards where every major decision in your life (career you pursue, the city you live in etc.) puts you one step closer to achieving those goals. That way, in the midst of the blood, sweat and tears (aka the grind) you'll always be able to maintain perspective because you'll be able to see the direct positive impact of your actions in helping achieve your goals, however small those actions may be. This can also help serve as a personal check, ensuring that the actions you take on a daily basis are in fact congruent with the person you hope to be in the present and become in the future. For myself, I understand exactly how pursuing a career in finance will help me achieve my life's goals and purpose, which helps serve a great deal of comfort, especially when times are tough (which is inevitable).
#2: Strive for Fulfillment, not Happiness: Happiness is overrated. Happiness is fleeting and not everlasting. If you go about your life always asking "if I'm happy" you will always be comparing yourself to a time when you were happier. Rather seek fulfillment. Finding fulfillment can be achievement multiple ways, however, I often find I achieve the most amount of fulfillment in my own life when I accomplish my goals (relates to point #1). There is no greater feeling of fulfillment when you voluntarily put yourself in a position to suffer, be in pain and discomfort - only to overcome those obstacles in the end. Often the struggle, even without the reward, is in itself fulfilling. Individuals such as Jocko Willink, David Goggins and Jordan Peterson etc. are great resources in this regard.
#3: Take responsibility for your own actions: No one in the entire world can help you feel fulfilled or even happy except yourself.
#4: Don't be afraid to seek help: I'm here, the entire WSO community is here, your family is here, and your friends are here. It's okay not to be okay, but it's important that you understand what exactly is making you feel down. Take the time and effort to find the root cause, and then ensure the appropriate steps to address that directly. I believe points #1-3 can help with that. If you are still having difficulty, seek the help of a professional (ideally a performance coach who also happens to be a therapist).
Agree completely.
The older I get, the more I realize that "happiness" is an illusion. It's not real. People often confuse happiness for fulfillment.
Fulfillment (achieving your goals, assuming you actually thought about and set them) is real. Strive for fulfillment. You'll be "happy".
If it makes you feel any better, a lot of people's life is like this but they work only 40 hours a week and are building nothing for the long term.
I am calling BS. IF you are working 40 hrs a week and still are just sitting on a couch, you are a loser.
Believe it or not that's a lot of people. I have friends that I catch up with who work regular jobs and the difference between me and them is that they've watched every episode of Game of Thrones, Mad Men, Walking Dead, etc. etc. It's amazing what a time suck streaming services have become for our generation.
You know anyone like this? Bring up any streaming show and they've seen it and can talk about it.
The average person just doesn't use their time all that effectively.....maybe exactly why they are the average person.
This is understandable. Ways you can try to combat this...stick fiercely to a positive routine, and make that positive routine include time for a workout a few times a week, consistent chores (to not let big chores build up), and healthy, deliberate eating/supplementation.
Avoid wasting any time (this does NOT mean don' t relax). Avoid scrolling through your phone mindlessly, while sitting in your bed with a show on netflix that you aren't even watching nor want to watch. Make use of all the time you have - even if it just means deliberate relaxation through any sort of goofing off necessary, just make sure whatever you are doing has some productive purpose to it. Work, Fun, Recovery, Self - Improvement. Any of those things
At the end of the day, you'll never know what it's like to be in the trenches until you experience it first hand. You tried it, you figured out that you hate it, and you learned from it. That doesn't mean it was time wasted. At the end of the day, you worked hard towards a difficult goal (break into IB) and proved you could handle it for a year. IMO that experience is worth more than if you had just skated through school and taken whatever job happened to come up.
Now you have to really think about what comes next. What are your values? How do you want to spend your time? Who do you want to be? You learned that being a slave to work is not something that fulfills you. You also likely learned that money is not the end-all-be-all. Start there, and figure out where you want to go. Good luck.
And on the off chance that you decide to stay in banking, you should look into outsourcing those mundane activities (even if you're savings less - can't put a price on mental health). That means having your dry cleaning delivered, meal kit service, maid to clean your house, etc.
Bruh just lateral to a LMM PE / VC team with chill hours or find a Corp Finance role with a PE/VC backed company. Sounds like that is up your alley in terms of "entrepreneurial" and "risk-taking". It's also highly doable as many such positions exist in the LMM world with cool work and light hours.
Following
I’ve been down this road and ground hard for years at a BB IB in a hard group. While there are a lot of good viewpoints here, I think there’s not enough talk about health.
Getting out of shape during IB is a choice you’re making (probably subconsciously), it’s not a reality you need to have. View the 2-3 years you spend as an analyst as professional bootcamp - almost everyone thinks of the discipline you need around getting work done, but you need to develop your broader discipline too.
I did the following while working 100+ hour weeks, and suggest you consider what you want to do to keep your health intact:
1) Walk DOWN stairs: While you can’t walk up the stairs and arrive at work sweaty, I would routinely take the stairs DOWN 40+ floors several times a week. This takes very little time and you’ll feel your calves absorbing the impact. You can also walk up 10-20 floors on the way home from work and then down the rest.
2) Meals: you DO NOT have to max your meal allowance. Play a game of setting a limit at 80% of your budget and only ordering to that amount. You’ll eat healthier and better quantities.
3) Meals part 2: Become disciplined about what you eat. Lean protein, salads / bowls with no dressing, low carbs.
Results? 4 years at a sweaty IB group and then years in PE. Very little weight gained and I’m in great shape.
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