Top Heavy Team - Cause for Concern?
Title basically says it all... When I came on as an analyst, my team was basically three seniors VP and above, with two other analysts (AN2 and AN3) and two associates who were a year apart.
Now, the analysts above me have switched teams or firms, and there are 4 seniors with only one associate. I absolutely feel like I don't have much room to grow in the medium term barring a major shakeup. Add to that I've been having some doubts about my fit in our product and concerns about the team culture, and it's made for a bit of a powderkeg of discontent.
Obviously, I'm curious if anyone has any insight if they have been in a similar situation. Internal move? Full-on exit? I want to make sure I'm not getting stuck in the mud (or in the doghouse if my team starts getting disappointed in the quality of my work as the new "senior" analyst).
It's extremely top heavy where I am and only going to continue to get worse.
We are grinding the juniors to dust and the work is trickling upwards, so I imagine we start to lose mid-level folks soon. I'm looking myself.
Not much upward mobility and the culture is collapsing.
Too many seniors will fight for your time and may ultimately decide that you need to be there for all of them.
Be very cautious sticking around.
Good advice, thank you. I suppose as time goes on things may change for the better if there's some personnel movement, but I don't think it would hurt to start planting some seeds for an internal move to keep in my back pocket. Best of luck with your situation
I mean are you being overworked? Have you voiced to the seniors? Are they looking to hire just not getting talent?
Not being overworked yet, but definitely stretched a lot thinner than it was 6 months ago when there were ~5 years of combined analyst experience instead of the current 2.5 between us. When I brought the concern to my manager, the response he gave was that "it'll just click one day" which doesn't really do much for me. I've been doing this for 18 months and I haven't had a "click" or anything resulting in material gains to my growth within the team when looking back at a high level. They are trying to bring in a 3rd year analyst (which is a tough seat to fill since most want to come in as associates) or junior associate (the problem there being that the top is already so heavy that I imagine it's harder to see the near term growth opportunities if you're taking that seat, meaning applicant quality is underwhelming)
Yeah I mean if you're not overworked dont see a huge issue but that is a kind of bs response, would consider lateraling
I saw this happen during my internship in Loans syndications within DCM. There were way more VPs and MDs than associates and analysts. I asked about this and they pretty much said it’s because Loans is very relationship based and there isn’t really much for a junior to do other than quickly fix up a slide.
Yeah I'm living this first hand for sure. DCM takes a lot of ownership over relationships from what I see in my group which is cool, but business is slow and seniors are barely ceding clients to the newly promoted VPs. Corporates are issuing way less this year, meaning even less business to go around. And while the old senior analysts got a chance to go meet clients while the team was less top heavy, now I feel like all the seniors are taking matters into their own hands and keeping a tight perimeter around their clients
You guys looking for analysts right now? Would love to make a switch over to DCM. Send me a PM will be fully confidential
How did you switch from dcm to coverage?
If there are 4 seniors and an associate, and you're an analyst, how are you concerned about growth? Feels like if you wanted to grow in your group, despite not having the mid-level support of a VP or Director, you'd have a decent amount of mobility going upwards if you wanted it assuming no other hires. Of course, realistically, with a team staffed with four seniors, an associate, and analyst, one could reasonably assume that additional hires might be made to support execution. But frame this oppty in your mind as a chance to really step into responsibilities which may otherwise be out of your written scope of work and could help propel you forward in your career at an accelerated rate.
If you're not happy with the group/type of product or coverage etc, then absolutely move. But given your heavy exposure to seniors with your team structure, you may be better suited looking externally rather than internally. Assuming you are good, seniors will be reluctant to let you go to another part of the firm, especially if you are in as thinly staffed a team you say you are. Collect and execute at a high level within your current role and leverage the potentially better experience into landing another offer if that's what you want. Being able to articulate that you were able to succeed in such an environment will look really good on you.
This is super helpful, thank you. I suppose I am thinking about it as a lack of air at the top (i.e., seniors are fighting tooth and nail over a pool of clients that just feels like it keeps shrinking as we exit certain lending facilities without joining/up-tiering others). The majority of the seniors who own the client relationships for our product are newly at that level, so I don't see space opening at the top anytime soon.
It's definitely a way better way to frame it if I'll be able to succeed in an environment like this. I guess my fear is not being able to contribute to pitches like the person who was the senior analyst did before they left, and the perception by my seniors that I haven't grown turning to an actual rut as I get fewer opportunities (due to the perception that I'm not moving at the same pace as predecessors).
Nonetheless, I guess the best thing I can do is push through like you say, try to be as valuable as possible, and make lemonade - with the aim to position myself well for other opportunities.
Additionally to TheBuellerBanker's points, you should really only be looking at what it takes to get to the next level. A lot can change in 3+ years. And in that case, you're in a really good position to be promoted to Associate. I don't think there's a problem here you need to worry about TBH. It sounds like they're short at the Associate level and you don't have much competition for the promote among your class so you're basically a shoe in for the Associate promote. Get promoted and put in a year as an Associate and then start worrying about the VP promote.
I was also very confused by your upwards mobility comment. You are an analyst, you want skilled MDs above you who can bring in deals and get you deal reps. Once you are a senior VP you can start worrying about spots up top. A lot can change once you get to that point and easy to lateral if you have lots of deal reps/connections in the industry.
I also have a question for an S&T focused role. I will be joining a crypto-desk where I will be the only analyst. There is no associate, the 3 VP's recently joined and all have 10-16+ YoE, and then the Head of Trading.
In your opinions what does this sound like for me? It sounds like I will be able to get my own book within 6 months and if I have my own book and can individually point back to contributions, that sounds very beneficial to me - maybe I would even be up for consideration to be promoted to associate earlier. (It's not a very structured firm).
I assume I'll be taking on all of the Junior level work so also concerned with WLB, and I won't have any analysts working alongside or below me until the next class of interns accepts since it looks like they're no longer hiring analyst level talent for the desk.
TLDR desk structure is: Me (Analyst converting from Intern) | No Associate | 3 VP's with 10-16 YoE who all joined over the Summer | Desk Head. Prior to the VP's it was a single associate and the desk head building the desk out. I would assume one of the 3 VP's will be director this year, and associate will stay open. If they hire an associate however, I feel like any sort of potential for upward mobility I may have just gets tossed out of the door. Thoughts?
EDIT: Just read the above post and got some answers. If anyone else has insight for an S&T top-heavy team where I might have exposure to my own book earlier please chime in (I assume this would be better for me).
This is too pessimistic a view tbh. No one precludes promotions for you in S&T until you get to the senior VP level where you actually have to show you make a PNL contribution.
We promote shocking shocking juniors every year simply because “its their turn” so I wouldn’t worry.
Our product’s floor is extremely (think 2/3s is Directors+) top heavy. Junior responsibilities get shared fairly evenly and as we take summers/A1s in they get included in the rotation and the associates and everyone else wins themselves more time for client coverage. I’m an associate and don’t feel like I’m competing with anyone to be made VP. I have my own coverage and help on some bigger accounts. Perhaps for me to get a Director seat I may need someone to leave but that’s not really a problem I need to think about right now. Also, in S&T it’s very common to trade up in seniority by moving, basically because they’re just paying you for your coverage.
Also factor in that summers/A1s can’t talk to clients or trade so they need to be kept busy with ops tasks so it’s completely normal. Just learn that the best way to avoid more ops tasks is to show you don’t have time because you actually have talk to clients. Just don’t rush, understanding how to help clients also means mastering your internal processes.
WLB I think is a non issue. if you’re getting crushed and they don’t want to hire junior help just leave.
(If format comes out weird blame the app, will fix later lol)
Not sure if the title says it all.....
I thought you were talking about working on a big tittied deal team....
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