I want to start this by saying that I understand that WFH is a polarizing topic - but, ironically, that is the root of the issue. There are two sides to this coin... there are those who think that WFH has been the single most powerful, life-enhancing change that they've experienced in their career, and there are those who are completely miserable and feel the walls rapidly closing in on them as they grind away in isolation. I believe the default (pre-COVID) was on the wrong side of the coin, and that WFH should be the accepted norm, with office work occurring only on an as-needed basis.
As someone who falls on the "WFH is the single most powerful, life-enhancing change I have experienced in my career" side of the spectrum, I figured I would share why I feel this way, and why I feel it should be the default system in investment banking.
This all really starts with one, hardly debatable fact: Investment Banking is broken.
"Those days"
Everyone has had "those days". You know, the days where the amount of time working amounts to the average 9-5 job, but the time distribution is so bad that it contributes just as much to burnout as the 20 hour days. Anyone who has spent time at the junior level in IB has experienced this many, many times: You send out a book at 11am to your deal/pitch team, sit in the office trying to look busy until 7pm, order dinner (without considering packing it up early, you know what is coming), get hit with 8pm comments that need to be turned immediately, and proceed to work until 4am. You then come in at 9-10am frustrated and tired, just to repeat the same process again. Personally, I find those days/weeks to be equally, if not more, painful than the times when you are so busy that you can't look away from your screen and hit 110 hours for the week.
The reality is - it's difficult to put blame on anyone in this situation, and it's even harder to tell MD's who have been in the industry for 20+ years to change the way they operate. The problem is that the schedules of junior bankers and senior bankers simply do not align. Seniors spend their time on the road meeting with clients, and oftentimes looking at a book/providing comments is something they can't get around to until late at night.
Increased happiness and fulfillment
One thing I have noticed since WFH became a mandated thing: I no longer find myself getting pissed off at my VP's/MD's for saying nothing all day, and then sending comments late at night. Go ahead - hold on to those comments all day. In the meantime I will live my life. Instead of sitting in the office twiddling my thumbs, I can go for a run, hit the gym, read a book, cook a healthy meal, and spend time outside or laying by the pool. I can do other things that bring happiness and fulfillment to my life.
My single biggest issue with the requirement/norm of coming in to the office is that it prevents you from doing things that genuinely interest you, aside from finance. You are less able to do things that contribute to you being a well-rounded person. Simple things like reading a book, watching a documentary, creating music, writing or reading up on non-financial topics that interest you on the internet - all are not acceptable in-office activities. While you're in the office, you have to appear "busy", or at the very least be reading up/learning things directly relevant to the job/finance. The feeling of being restricted from doing things you love, especially when you're not actually busy, is the quickest way to create resentment and hostility towards your job.
I am not saying that there is no place for collaboration - there are times where sitting side-by-side with someone is absolutely necessary. I just think the current way the business operates should be reversed.
Working from home should be the default. Coming in to the office should be the exception, not the rule.
The industry needs to change
There are always going to be those who prefer coming in to the office, and those who prefer working remote. Again, it is a polarizing topic with two distinct ends of the spectrum. However, if coming in to the office is the default and WFH is just an option - no one will end up doing it. The fear of negative judgement and skewed visions of "hard work" will cause everyone to avoid working from home. If you don't believe this, just look at the way people currently treat their PTO in IB. “Don’t use any PTO in your first year” is a common piece of advice, and a toxic reality. Lost opportunity for virtually no gain.
I truly believe there is tremendous value to be found in those many hours in-between comments. Higher rates of learning, more happiness, freedom, fulfillment, lower rates of burn-out, and in the end - better work quality. The industry needs to change - or talent will simply start going elsewhere.
TLDR;
Work from home should be the default. Coming in to the office should be the exception, not the rule. WFH is better because of the misalignment of schedules between junior and senior bankers. People will be happier, healthier, more well-rounded, and overall, more fulfilled with their lives. Those things should be the number one priority for a bank - because in the end, they directly impact work quality and retention.
My only thing is think about how much indirect knowledge/information you absorb while being in the office...perspectives, excel tricks, modeling help, tid bits, etc.
Yeah it's great and all being able to be home etc. but this just isn't a long term reality for the client-driven nature of investment banking. You learn so much in office and the people skills you pick up along the way help craft you into a well rounded MD who can go out and win business. I don't really see that structure changing dramatically in the future. If banking isn't the long term goal, you still need face time in recruiting. I think a hybrid structure is the likely reality but time in seat is still a necessity for 1st and 2nd years.
I don't think client-driven = juniors need to work in cubicle. People skills are learned over a lifetime - weekend events, lunches and just being social/networking in general will develop those skills better than sitting in a office all day. I agree that a hybrid structure is the answer - but just think that preference should be given to remote work, and in office work should be on an as-needed (or as-wanted) basis.
Overall, I think personal development/growth would be greater with this structure. Of course the way things currently isnt a great reflection of my viewpoint - but that's a result of everything being locked down and social activities being non-existent.
This is not sustainable. How do you build meaningful relationships over the phone and zoom? I think after this is all over, banks should at least make Friday WFH unless there's a meeting.
Also, when do have free time that you get to do all these things? I start working at ~8 AM at home and am essentially working non-stop until 7 PM (no joke, sitting and listening to calls that require attention), aim to get a quick run in (if possible), then am working again until midnight. I (like many others) have worked every weekend since quarantine. My friend at a reputable MM says he tries to get sunlight at least once every 3 days if possible. What the actual fuck?
People have taken this as an opportunity to schedule calls at any given moment. I was on a call and heard an MD from another bank say "We're trapped and it's Friday at 6 PM, we can do this all night if we need to". That's straight up sadistic to all the juniors on his team. Tons of people going to burn out after this.
Just needs to be a balance. 30-40% WFH, 60-70% in office.
It's value adding to all be in the same place physically. It's also value adding to be happier, personally, which WFH helps with. Need a little of both, it's not complicated.
If the industry doesn't change to WFH, where is the talent going to go?
Continue to go into tech and to a lesser extent, consulting.
WFH is "too hard to implement." Diversity is "too hard to recruit for." Technology is "too expensive to invest in." Students aren't completely dumb, and at some point, people get the picture.
Time for banks to stop complaining and start finding solutions.
Don't know about you guys, but I have to connect to my firm's internet through a VPN, and it makes things, such as analyzing large datasets, so much slower... Having the option to pick between WFH and going into the office would be ideal. If I have a heavy dataset to play with, great, I;ll come into the office to do my thing. If I have silly PowerPoint presentations I need to update, I'll just do it from home.
Why do we even need analysts working from home in NYC? Offshore team in India probably would be cheaper and work harder
You best hope not, otherwise an army of 60 Indian kids will take your job and Work from home (in Bangalore) for 300 rupees a month.
First off - I can completely relate to the OP. I had plenty of days as an analyst where I am doing diddly squat for all intents and purposes all afternoon through dinner knowing what's coming that night. Director or MD may have left around 5 or 6ish, and just as your dinner at the office arrives, they've turned their attention to your work. You get a heavy turn on something and flip it back by 10 or 11. Shortly after that, another turn that keeps you at the office till 2 or 3 AM. I hope for the sake of analysts that a lot of banks have become better at combating this kind of culture. It certainly happens every now and then and is sometimes uncontrollable, but it shouldn't be a recurring behavior/work style.
One thing to consider, and this probably depends a lot on your group and firm, senior bankers have to travel a ton for work. I am not a senior banker (work in PE) but travel quite a bit for work. Can't stress enough how amazing it is when I have weeks where I am not on the road at all. Perks and points are definitely not worth it (especially in PE where a lot of my travels aren't taking me fun, exotic cities). It get's old quick and can be draining after awhile. I can only imagine that get's more annoying once you're older and have a family with kids at home.
That being said, how would it look if your entire junior staff at a bank gets to WFH the overwhelming majority of the time? Okay sure, they're working longer hours than their respective seniors, but analysts receive competitive compensation to reflect the time they put in (relative to other "entry level" jobs out of college). I am sure senior folks at a firm would not be okay with this. They'll see it like this: "I leave my family for 3-4-5 days at a time fairly often and these kids want to work from home? I am paying these 21 year olds $X a year, you better believe I want them in the office working during regular hours at minimum." I'm not saying this kind of thinking is free of flaws, just how I think a conversation like that would play out. These are the same people who think it also makes sense for the core team to be together in the office late at night if there is work required for important projects. One might argue if you need to be staying up that late regularly working, at least get the mercy of being able to do it from the comfort of your own home. They might respond to that with the mindset that if the work is important enough to keep the whole team up that late, then it warrants the core team to be tackling it together at the office. I tend to agree there is some merit to that stance, depending on the deliverable/project. I had select evenings as an analyst where the MD was there with us till 3AM, iterating pages live as they were handed to him piece-meal (he wasn't just creating work for the sake creating work at that hour) and was off on a flight 4 hours later for that high-profile buyside pitch while I was still sleeping at home.
Separately, it only takes a few bad eggs to ruin a more permanent WFH arrangement. Plenty of us are far more efficient working from home. We're just as responsive, quick and accurate with our work. My PE shop is actually talking about keeping this WFH policy enacted for the foreseeable future this year. That's partly because we are a lean team, everyone has been working here for a considerable amount of time (aside from a fresh associate or two), and it would be very difficult to slack off. I can't say the same model is easy to replicate at a large IBD group, especially when you're getting new junior employees on a regular/annual basis. It's easy for people here (those with non-virtual office experience!) to stay disciplined and efficient at home. I can't imagine people sharing that same sentiment when it comes to fresh analysts hitting the desks. I also don't think it's great for junior employees' comprehensive enrichment. They need to pick up the skills of how to answer questions on the spot (in an MD's office not behind their computer), work through disagreements on calculations with their associates (verbally like human beings and not exchanging emails/chat like a CSR trying to resolve an issue). Call me old-fashioned, but these are critical skills that people in their early 20s pick up by being in a professional & physical environment, not at home over email or by phone.
I am not sure how much reform has taken place in banking the last ~4 years when it comes to when you can/can't work from home. I think one tangible goal that banks can strive for is encouraging employees to work from home during non-business hours when they can. That means 2nd year analysts and associates can head home for dinner or shortly after if all they have left that evening is non-live deal work. Might also mean significantly raising the threshold for work that warrants you being called into the office on the weekend. When I was an analyst, WFH was heavily discouraged both on weeknights and weekends; it was moreso only out of absolute necessity if an analyst couldn't be at the office for some reason. I am hoping things have changed for the better since then, and I am sure there is still plenty of room for improvement. I just don't think a straight up WFH policy is in the cards for this industry, at least any time soon.
Many industries are claiming that covid has been the catalyst to start the inevitable transformative change in their world. Change that was going to / had to happen has just been accelerated dramatically.
I saw an interview with the CEO of PNC. He was talking about digital transformation and the challenges of getting seniors comfortable with digital banking vs, branch banking. He stated covid forced seniors in to digital and he feels many will never go back. Once they're comfortable with it, why would they? Thinks they accelerated their digital footprint by ten yrs in two months.
This is happening in many industries. How many people will simply not fly to meetings that are not considered mission critical in the new world? Plenty of them.
Like everything else, IB needs to modernize and become more efficient. It's too easy to say, "We can't, this is a service / relationship business, etc..." It's all BS. Your clients will be happy to no always meet in person and nobody (other than maybe your MD) gives a crap about the minutia in your pitch book that needed a last minute edit. Trust me, they don't even look at it.
IB needs a major overhaul and this may be the perfect time.
I think there’s a way to reach a balance between both sides of the coin: designate specific days of the week as WFH.
For example... Everyone comes to the office Mon & Wed-Friday, but WFH Tuesday. by designating when ppl should come to the office, you maximize the collaboration potential of those dates (eg picking up modelling tips, excel tips, and other tid-bits as others mentioned) while normalizing WFH through the designated day(s) and slightly reducing burnout, as others described.
Of course, having everyone come to the office on the same day doesn’t help with physical distancing, so this is an idea for the post-covid world.
How realistic or beneficial do you think this could be vs what the thread author suggested?