Math PhD to IB (M&A)
I am in a rather unique situation in that in a few months I will get a PhD in math from a top UK institution (think Oxbridge), but I don't want to go down the academic career nor I want to get a quant job. I want to make a drastic change in my life and start a career in IB (M&A). Any advice on how to get there? My academic credentials should be good (4.0/4.0 gpa in undergrad and master's, and top PhD in maths), but I am already 29 and have no relevant work experience (apart from teaching maths to undergrads).
I am thinking of two possible paths:
1) join a consulting firm (MBB) first for 2 years, then move to IB.
2) Try IB directly.
Questions:
In path 1), after 2 years as a consultant, will I need an MBA to make the move to IB, or will my PhD be enough?
In path 2), should I target analyst or associate positions? What are my chances at BB? Something in particular I should focus on to prepare for the interview?
Finally, in case I can make it to banking, what will my chances of moving to PE/HF look like after 2-3 years on the job, i.e. when I'll be around 33-34?
Many thanks to everyone who will take the time to answer, I am aware of being in a very atypical situation and appreciate your help a lot!
Have you looked into quant consulting at MBB/B4? It has the mix of client interaction work that IB does and the math skills that you have.
In the US MBB pays about $120k all-in out of undergrad. B4 pays around $100k all-in. Quantitative consulting is essentially a division within MBB consulting so I don’t believe pay materially differs from the classical management or strategy divisions. If you’re a PhD though you’d probably get hired at a higher level so the numbers above are conservative. The pay in consulting always staggers IB but you’ll still be very comfortable. You can certainly hit 7 figures in MBB as well if you make it to partner status.
Job security is extremely high because you build quantitative models for clients in various areas such as pricing and risk. Even if one firm blows up, you have many more that will look for services.
You are going to be so bored in IB. You don’t have to go quant but with your background I would at least take a look at sales and trading roles…
Do what you want but as someone with a math background I was absolutely miserable working in corporate banking, which while not IB, has very similar tasks. You will be working long hours doing tasks which require no critical thinking. Not trying to discourage you but this is the reality.
Also the talk of S&T dying is incredibly played out on this forum and is largely perpetuated by undergrads that have never worked at a bank before. S&T is very much alive and people are still making very good money (especially for the hours). It is far more meritocratic and your quant skills will be far more in demand and useful. Make your own decisions but if you’re not going to start until 30, I would pick the job I’m going to like more, has less hours and allows me to move up quickly (IB does not do this).
Bro stop thinking about money. If you enjoy your job, you are likely to become good at it. If you are good at your job, you are likely to make a lot of money. Stop being myopic and do what you enjoy.
You're a math guy, so I'll put it into notation for you. What is P( you will enjoy IB | you are a maths PhD )?
I appreciate you commenting in this thread but I do not share your views neither on money nor on what it's needed to be successful on a job.
If you care to know my opinion, I think that money is actually the most important thing to consider when picking a job (together with wlb), that "passions" are mostly bullish*t meaning that what one is "passionate about" in 99% of cases has nothing noble or "intrinsic" to their character but it's just the result of the random events that have happened in their lives, and that the main factor that determines success on a job (a part from IQ) is motivation (and money, or actually what you can do with money, is an excellent source of motivation).
I’d wager that almost no one would put in the amount of effort necessary to truly go above and beyond, which is necessary to reach the outlier level of compensation, simply for the money. If you are saying passion is just caused by a series of random events, then are you implying that athletes, in another world, could’ve been a book worm? I think that’s impossible. I think passions are, to a great extent, determined genetically, but of course the specifics are determined by randomness.
Regardless of if you think passion is bullsh*t, picking something you’re passionate about is the best strategy since it not only guarantees that you’d enjoy it, but it will also give you the greatest possible return.
I came from a very STEM-y background at a top uni as well. I'd urge you to consider other paths. Being the numerical and tangible person I am, I went for the job that had the highest number £££ on the offer letter. Can provide you reasons why IB might not suit people like us, but since your main question was on how to break into IB - here goes...
"MBB option" - no. Dont bother. Its rare that people move from MBB to IB, especially not after an MBA. Large number of lateral hires into IB junior roles are from big 4 audit / deal advisory / transaction services etc. It's not that consultants aren't able to break into IB (they definitely can) but there's not much reason to at that point. If they wanted money - straight to PE. If they wanted impact - to startups/non profit. If they wanted a better life - in house corporates. So if you're trying MBB just as a stepping stone to IB, dont. If you're trying MBB because you think consulting might suit you, definitely go for it. (most firms will recognise your PhD and give you a headstart over undergrads)
"Try IB directly" option - yes. Analyst position. Fresh PhD to Assoc not possible (not that i've heard of). I'd say chances at BB/MM/EB are the same as any other undergrad. I personally know of a few PhDs that recruited for IB (some successfully, some not). In fact I think they have a higher success rate than undergrads. The difficulty for you now is that you didnt go through the UK "pipeline" of springweeks and summers. So probably worth applying for summers/off cycles as opposed to full time directly as internships are usually an unspoken requirement. I'd also add that you should apply as wide as possible - given you're not a traditional candidate, you might have better luck at non-traditional shops (MM independent ones like Torch Baird etc). They are less well known but it gets your foot into the door, which you urgently need as you havent had the "pipeline".
Your point on age - does not matter. Just make sure that you show that you have the same level of energy as the starry eyed 21 year old BSc grads. Only reason age can be a downfall is if your interviewer / recruiter thinks that you have family commitments or you simply dont have the energy to sustain the analyst life. And wrt PE / HF - its a big world. BX / KKR / Apollo might not screen a 34 year old IB analyst but there are thousands of other great shops.
And regarding your conversations with others about doing an MBA just to get into IB - dont... You'll need 2+ years work experience for a good MBA, and 2 years of MBA. Thats 4 years just to break into IB - rather spend that time doing IB / finance internships and I'm 100% sure you'll get in one day (with proper IB experience less 200k MBA debt).