MSF placements General
As I understand it, there are many potential placement options out of a MSF program such as: consulting, IB, ER, PE, S&T, hedge funds, AM, VC, so on and so forth...
I'm curious as to what your opinions are on these types of positions. Ups and downs of each such as hours, pay, upward mobility, responsibilities, how interesting they are, etc...
I'm trying to figure out which type of placement will be a good fit for different types of people.
Also, with many good MSF programs out there, are some of them stronger than others in placing graduates in one of the above mentioned fields?
Thanks in advance for the advice.
WSO MSF Program Rankings
Here is a list of some of the strongest MSF Programs from the thread MSF Ranking by certified user @guyfromct"
Tier 1 Programs
- MIT
- Claremont McKenna
- Vanderbilt
- WUSTL
- Virginia
- Boston College
- Florida
- Southern Methodist
- Texas
- Tulane
- Villanova
Tear 2 Programs
- Baruch
- Boston University
- George Washington
- Houston
- Illinois
- Maryland
- Ohio State
- Purdue
- Syracuse
- University of Rochester
from certified user @TNA"
The typical role once you graduate, well I suppose it all depends. In my program, we have people going into IB, PWM, S&T, AM, ER, Corp Fin, plus we have some outliers, etc. I don't know about MBB or anything really consultant orientated.
If you had previous experience and knew people in the industry I guess anything is possible. I think if you get a masters in something you are pretty much committing yourself to work in that field.
Recommended Reading
Ok, this has been covered quite a bit, but I will be nice.
MSF - Masters in Finance - Quantitative, but not as much as a financial math degree.
BC Vanderbilt Tulane Villanova UIUC Uof Rochester U of Washington- Olin
These are well known schools with solid programs. I am missing some so do not kill me. MSF places regionally usually. Ex. BC will place well in Boston and NYC. Villanova will place well in Philly and NYC. Tulane will place well down south, UIUC in Chicago, so on and so forth. Each program has a different pros and cons. Villanova has a cohort so no MBA's take our classes. Vanderbilt has a solid MBA program and name. BC has a night time option. MSF degrees are still not THAT well known, but growing. Think of it as the cross roads in finance. You can go for an MBA later and work in industry or if you really enjoy the academic side of finance you can easily transition into a PhD program. Graduate level finance is not easy and is a significant step up from undergrad so make sure it is what you want.
Typical role once you graduate, well I suppose it all depends. In my program we have people going into IB, PWM, S&T, AM, ER,Corp Fin, plus we have some outliers, etc. I don't know about MBB or anything really constant orientated. If you had previous experience and knew people in the industry I guess anything is possible. I think if you get a masters in something you are pretty much committing yourself to working in that field.
MIT, Princeton, NYU and CMU all have masters in financial math ( The Princeton degree is sort of a hybrid between a MFE and MSF from what people have told me). All have amazing names and place well, tend to be more for higher level math individuals. Some schools have MFin programs that are run out of the math department. If you are heavy quant focuses then look at those schools.
In Europe a masters is more well known and the typical path. It is gaining traction here, but you are still fighting and up hill battle. Overall I am very happy with my degree and the fact that it only took a year away from work to get.
Why 2012?
Save yourself the trouble and don't do it. Find a job.
the reason he is doing it is probably to find a job...
Then why 2012...seems to be a little early to know if you'll have a job by then
I'm working right now in "financial services" as was talked about in another post by means of an independent investment advisor. I'd like to transition into more corporate finance/banking and I didn't go to a target school so I'm figuring a MSF is a good route to take.
If you're going to do an MSF,
1) Do one with no summer classes so you can find an internship. Experience trumps all.
2) Do one where the school has a brand name. Alumni network + OCR is key
3) Avoid quant programs (unless you want to be a quant)
4) Easier if going for analyst and not associate positions.
Thanks, I've read a lot of posts you've put up previously and they've been quite insightful as to the quality and expectations at certain MSF programs, as well as their ups and downs.
I've looked around for topics discussing this but haven't found any, sorry if I missed them (links would be appreciated if you know where they are). I'm primarily interested in what the community here thinks about the different options coming out of a MSF like I mentioned in the original post "ups and downs of each such as hours, pay, upward mobility, responsibilities, how interesting they are, etc..."
I do recognize that programs can place all over the map in terms of IB, consulting, AM, etc.
thanks again everyone
Are there any MSF programs that are actually possible for the "common man" to get into?
Like most of the acceptance rates at a lot of these places seem to be around 5-15%, and the profile of most students are 4.0 math majors with previous trading experience, which means this route is pretty inaccessible to me...
Man, eff all that. 5% - 15% acceptance rate for something that equates to a lower tier MBA? To me they don't need to be that picky unless their degree is going to land you at a bulge bracket firm or something. If I had a 4.0 math gpa and trading experience why the hell would I want to get a MSF?
I don't think the entrance stats for MSF programs are THAT stringent. Typically is you score a 650 or higher on your GMAT and have a finance or math UG you should be competitive at most places.
A MSF is not a lower tier MBA. A MSF degree is a graduate level finance degree. The finance in a MSF class is much more in depth than at a MBA program. If you have a 4.0 in math and trading experience why the hell would you be looking at a MSF degree at all?
I am attending Illinois Tech's MSF program and to tell you frankly, the acceptance rate is around 25-30% at my school.The course is good with a very flexible curriculum.You can take concentrations in corporate finance as well as take a financial engineering route.Most of the students find jobs in Chicago. http://www.quantnet.com/review-iit-ms-finance-program
Hi...I dont quite agree to that. I think the acceptance rate is more than 90% and most students find it very hard to find jobs after the program. The school is not well known so mostly all companies dont know about it.
Barbarian... sorry I meant 2011 not 2012
What are everyone's opinions on the different career options coming out of a MSF program? The ups and downs of AM vs. IB vs. S&T vs. consulting, etc. ?
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Thanks for the info bunker. What are you opinions on these different tracks?
I appreciate everyones insight on all of this stuff but I'm still trying to get part of my original question answered. What are the ups and downs of these different career decisions after getting a MSF?
People go to these programs with the end goal of increasing their employability (in some form or another). Threads on this site put a lot of focus on getting into these programs, which is very informative, but with the ultimate objective being finding a good position out of graduation, I think there's a surprising lack of discussion on what a good career choice is coming out of these programs.
I assume from my limited knowledge so far that IBD probably has the highest pay but works absurd hours. S&T I assume can be pretty boring (please tell me if I'm wrong) and I don't know much about the hours or pay. Consulting seems to be the most interesting (IMHO) but again, I don't know much about average hours or pay out of an MSF program. What about AM or working at hedge funds? Thoughts everyone?
Thanks again
IB pays pretty well, but it's more about the well-rounded and transferrable skill-set that is obtained. The hours are a necessary evil for those of us who think of it as a career stepping stone. Bankers are capable of moving into the broadest range of industries as compared to most other finance jobs.
I don't know much about consulting, seeing as how that's not even a finance career per se. But, to my understanding, consulting will offer a broad business skill-set, which is transferable in the market place.
S&T/AM are a bit more focused in terms of the finance skills, therefore, you generally stick to those fields longer term. Hedge funds typically recruit from IBD, trading, research, etc. It's difficult to get into a top hedge fund or private equity firm without having prior experience relative to these industries.
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You're right. I don't know much about S&T but I do have a good understanding of AM and IB. I'm glad to hear that S&T (one of the more common placements for MSF grads to my knowledge) is a strong, interesting career. I'll look into it more.
You don't think a MSF is a good choice for a consulting career? What's your rationale? I thought that a good number of MSF grads end up there. Obviously not as much as some of the other areas but nevertheless a decent percentage. Consulting always struck me as a good career choice because theres analytical aspects (which we all have assuming we are considering a MSF) but you're not stuck behind a desk all day, rather meeting with clients and doing some travel as well (depending on the firm).
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MIT just started a MSF program. Since it is new, it should have a higher acceptance rate, and has all the MIT faculty, networking, and reputation of being quantitative.
Masters of Finance, MIT
Ok, I think we are conflating MSFs like Princeton, which are actually closer to MFEs (financial engineering), with MSFs like Boston College or Vanderbilt, which are nowhere as mathematically rigorous.
Princeton's MSF is one of the top in the world, and people who attend it are going to be working as quants for hedge funds, etc... not as investment bankers. They have no need for an MBA b/c an MBA won't get them those kinds of jobs.
A Vandy MSF isn't going to place its students into those kinds of elite quant roles, it's going to place them in middle market IBs or other financial institutions as bankers or traders or risk managers. These people may need an MBA down the line depending on the career path they choose to follow.
In the USA, MBA>MSF (unless its Princeton or something comparable AND you are certain you want to be a quant) In Europe, MScs (Masters of Science) in Finance are quite popular, and getting an MBA isn't as important for career progression as it is in the USA.
side note:
all of the students at the Princeton MSF and other top MSFs are complete fucking nerds. so MBA>MSF for social considerations.
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