The Misguidance at Non-target Schools
I am willing to admit that I did not make it into any of my target schools. I understood in any such industry talked about in WSO, my credential would put me at a disadvantage. As a result, I pushed myself to make the connections and steps necessary to earn a valuable Summer Analyst internship. I was very fortunate to get it, but even more shocked by the lack of understanding of how important this internship was at this school.
I have always been prepped to believe no one in my school had a shot at a major firm. In one of my finance courses, only myself and one other person knew the difference between private equity and IB. The teachers reinforce the idea that: "to work at a company like J.P. Morgan, the AMOUNT of experience matters more than the content of what you learn". As noted, I disputed that my 10-week Summer Analyst Internship was far more credible than that of a local Credit Union intern who only processes transactions (for 1 year).
The whole class rallied against me. Comments included: a financial analyst could be anything, 10 weeks is nothing compared to 1 year, my company was in New York and a boutique (not "Name Brand").
This kid with his one year experience described how he got offered a full time job there and is making $42,000 a year. The whole class applauded him. They then turned to me and described how they were right and I was wrong.
This is what angered everyone: I said that when I graduate, I will be making over twice the money he will be starting. I said this to explain that his method was not better than mine and that their views on an "Analyst" were misguided. The teacher was the first to get angry with me. She mentioned that pay is not everything ("Am I not successful because I am a professor and make less than you will").
It is hard to explain to non-target school culture that their is success beyond the boundaries set by the standard. They already adjusted to this idea that target schools will be more successful than them: so they justify that their total experiences will overtake their value. It is very similar to the idea that if someone does not think they are book smart, they are immediately street smart (to justify it to themselves).
Is there a way of showing these people the path without hurting their feelings? For many who I have shown WSO, they are very timid. The burst of credentials everyone online has makes them feel inferior. As a result, they tell me they don't want to be Analyst. I respect them if they did not want to be an Analyst in the first place, but I hate when people try to come up with a bs excuse for not being able to make the cut.
FYI I understand I was wrong to make a statement like that. It was hurtful and wrong for the guy to lose his enjoyment. I just hated the fact that the class relished their own personal feelings about being right over me (not his actual success).
flaunting your pay probably didn't help, in that situation I'd be the bigger person, keep my mouth shut, and do a mini fist pump inside when they're taking my drink order in 5 years.
offer your advice to those who are willing to listen, but it sounds like these people don't care to know that something lies beyond. it's not like WSO is the Holy Graile, it's pretty easy to find. you can lead any horse to water, you just can never force it to drink.
forget about everyone else, they're obviously not your competition. focus on bettering yourself so you can get to a point where people come to you and ask for advice.
those who can't do....teach (exceptions for people who made their money in the industry and teaching is a 2nd career)
best of luck, keep up your hustle
It really all comes down to perspective. Your classmate might be pulling in 42k a year, but with that salary he'll be able to buy a 1500 sqft house and live a decent life.
Your 80k salary in NYC will likely net you with sharing a 600 sqft apartment with 2 other people.
So now, which one of you is better off? It comes down to perspective and short and long term goals. Some peoples idea's and goals in life don't include even leaving the city/state they grow up in, so the idea of going somewhere else is ludicrous.
Also, your idea of working for JPM is starting off as an analyst in their 2 year analyst program. Their idea of working for JPM as an analyst is working at their corporate retail banking offices. So you're talking about the same thing... but you're not talking about the same thing.
Non-targets also tend to not even understand what investment banking really is. I had a friend that went to the same high school in me that "wanted to be an investment banker" but then found out all the "shady stuff that happens in IB" and went off spouting all this nonsense and now does mortgages or something.
I learned several things from this post that I found interesting.
Apparently, there are still people in this country with college degrees who only earn $42,000 per year.
The kid who mentioned how much he was getting paid was a douche for telling the whole class his pay level. He is also a douche for thinking that is worth bragging about.
Your finance professor is also a douche. Leave that 'money isn't everything' shtick to the art and philosophy professors.
You give way too much of a shit what other people think. My hunch is that you only want these other students to learn more about the distinctions between retail banking and investment banking because you want them to know how prestigious you are. That's pretty fucked up too. There's always someone smarter, making more money, or has a bigger dick than you, so getting into these comparisons provides no real benefit to your life.
You're not kidding. I know a few kids like that from my school. I had to explain to one that she isn't an investment banker even though she's a teller at a bank.
What's worse are the number of kids who almost make it. There's always a group of kids who are "in the loop" at non-targets. Most don't make it into the industry, though. I have a friend who took the first corporate finance gig that came about, and now works operations at an analytics company (ie, Factset, etc). Another friend came to NYC for the purpose of finding a banking gig. 2 months into the search guy says fuck it and goes to work as a hotel clerk (not fucking around with this one).
The amount of misleading info at non-targets is incredible and I blame mostly teachers who have a confidence problem. They think that 22-year old kids should be "lower" than they on the totem pole of life, and they instill that same thinking into students. It creates a hopeless situation. And to compound the issue, as mentioned above, in my school the accounting program was considered the bee's knees. These kids walked around like they owned the world. I could never convince even a close friend that with a 3.9 in accounting and some internships, she could find a banking gig with (relatively) less hassle and make more cash and have a potentially more fulfilling career.
In short, I'm making sure that my kids go to target schools. They can major in basket weaving if they want. But I won't deal with the brainwashing that goes on at XYZ State.
Edit: to echo an above post, if I never discovered WSO, I would be in a completely different place in life.
I have a pretty diverse friend group, and as a result I have had the opportunity to spend time at a variety of different academic institutions, going to parties, lectures, talks, etc. In my experience, there are three types of schools.
At tier 3/4 schools (Podunk State University, For-Profit College):
"You are here so that after you graduate, you don't get the worst jobs/life in society."
It sounds like this is the type of school you're at. People are incredibly excited to work at middling corporate finance jobs so they can eventually get married, buy a small house, and generally feel comfortable not having to worry about violence in their neighborhoods. There's nothing wrong with this and you can live a happy life this way.
At tier 2 schools (Flagship University of State, Big Private University):
"You are here so that when you graduate, you can get the best, most interesting jobs."
Schools like this graduate people who will go on to be high-level corporate managers, investment bankers, software engineers, and professors. They will make good money and have job security. They live in nice neighborhoods and eat organic food etc. But at the end of the day, they are working for someone else and often live a relatively obscure life. Again, there's nothing wrong with this and it's another way to live a happy life.
At tier 1 schools (We all know them):
"You are here because you are a future leader of the world."
From a non-target background, it's easy to idealize investment banking and private equity because seem like this amazing and glorious career path. The effect is mitigated when your classmates become presidents, senators, rock stars, movie stars, chairpersons of the fed, nobel-prize winners, pulitzer-prize winning journalists, etc.
Does that mean that if you come from a non-target (or, god-forbid, didn't go to college) that you can't be president? That you can't be an investment banker? That you can't work for Google? That you can't be a successful entrepreneur? That you can't start a hedge-fund? No. Of course not. You can do whatever you set your mind to. There will be lots (I mean lots!) of obstacles, but none of which can't be overcome with intelligence and action.
Which brings me to your original question, about how to help your non-target classmates understand the world of success beyond what they can see. My advice to you is that you don't worry about it. Instead, try to focus on the world of success that you're currently blind to, because I can guarantee you something: you are not that different from them. You want to be an investment banker. Awesome. That's an admirable goal and the effective allocation of capital in society is why we can have nice things.
But there is a world of possibility even beyond that, and your job is to figure out what it is.
But if you really feel the need to lead the horses to water AND make them drink, I am going to tell you a story about a friend of mine that might help in that regard. My friend is a member of one of the world's fastest growing religions (I am not, but he is). Throughout the course of our friendship, he has never tried to convert me, but I have watched him convert probably dozens of people at this point, from the very well-off to the not well-off at all. His secret? He is genuinely happy, compassionate, a fun person to be around, and has a deep sense of meaning and purpose in his life.
All he does is genuinely connect with people, and then eventually they ask him "How are you so satisfied/ What's your secret?" Then he invites them to come to church with him sometime. He introduces them to a bunch of other genuine people. Suddenly they are converted. It takes a few weeks. Granted, their beliefs are a little kooky, but he'll be the first to tell you: "I don't try to convert anyone, but rather I try to let my own light shine through to their darkness." I think it's an excellent philosophy.
It seems like there are two basic threads going on here: the first is some people being upset because they don't feel they got enough support from their non-target school with regards to internships, networking, etc. That seems like a totally valid criticism, and schools should definitely do everything they can to help students land the best job possible.
It seems like a few people, however, wish that their non-target would have opened their eyes to "high-finance" and fueled their KKR dreams, to which I say: What are you smoking? Why would non-target schools even bother telling their students what's "really out there" in terms of possibilities? They would just be wasting the time of HR departments all around the street as well as their students' time. From a global perspective, Big 4 Audit is actually a great job, especially if your alternative is being the assistant manager of your local Wendy's. On top of that, it's much more achievable than IB/PE.
I don't think there's anything wrong with non-target finance departments steering kids into Acct/CorpFin jobs. It's probably a lot easier to do that than deal with the shitstorm of broken dreams that would result from pushing IB.