I went to a top tier liberal arts college, 3.53 GPA. I have an MA in history. I worked for two years in libraries at prominent universities, and just started my second year of teaching at a private high school. A couple years ago, before I started teaching, I was eager to get into finance. I didn't find it very satisfying working in a field I was passionate about, and I was more concerned with financial gain. But because of things people said to me on this forum, I didn't think I could ever get interviews, and I ended up investing all my energy into the LSAT, trying for a T6 school. I'm supposed to take the LSAT in October.
I realized last night though, that because I'm 28, I wouldn't be finishing law school until I'm 32 and leaving with $230k in debt. I would have to spend the next 4-5 years working 100 hour weeks in biglaw in order to pay my debts before I could move to in-house counsel with more manageable hours. This bothers me because it means biglaw until my late thirties. I'm not married now, but I hope I would be married by then, and I hate the idea of having to raise children with that work schedule and not save for retirement until I'm 40. It just seems like a horrible plan looking at it.
So given my background and my age, are there any options for me in finance that would allow me to cut out the schooling and get a job for next year? I have a lot of connections in all areas of finance, but not the typical background. I'm afraid to get an MBA now because I'm too old for the T7 and have no relevant work experience. Where am I most likely to find a position that would lead to strong career?
In my opinion, stick to business/corporate/M&A law
How come? You think transitioning would be almost impossible?
Just go out and apply to things. Work your network. You don't have a whole lot to lose.
The first thing that comes to mind is consulting. Sounds like you've got a decent pedigree and an unique background. I know people in your age range and older who got interviews at MBB coming out of non-MBA/MSF masters.
You might also want to look at generalist/rotational associate roles at, say, HFs. I've run into more than a few offbeat guys in those roles - a social sciences PhD comes to mind.
Edit: Wait a sec. What do you actually want to do? Do you just want to be able to say you work in finance? Is the end goal just a high salary?
I'm interested in finance because the people I know who went into it seem happy with their jobs and interested in their work. About 2/3rds of the people from my prep school end up in finance, so I was actually the exception. Since graduation in 2007, I've had a lot of time to assess what I do and don't want from my career. Law and finance seemed like good fits. I have a strong network in law (my grandfather was a judge), but the prospect of three years of law school and hundreds of thousands in debt makes me uneasy about pursuing that right now. But yes, money is a concern. If I could make what my analyst friends make teaching, I would have little incentive to leave.
I have a lot of experience networking for jobs, and what I've learned is that even though connections are a great way to draw someone's attention, it's credentials and professional experience that get you the job. While I was able to get courtesy interviews at a number of places, my connections only helped me get hired for jobs where I was already strongly qualified for the position (teaching history for example). The networking connection was only a tie breaker.
So what I'm saying is that I know I get a lot of informational interviews fairly quickly, maybe get people to look at my resume and call me in, but I can't get a job unless there's another reason to hire me. Something on my resume that puts me in the same pile as the college senior who majored in econ/finance with a junior year internship. So what can I do to change that? Any suggestions?
You're not too old for an M7 MBA.
But even if I could rebrand myself with an MBA, a lack of prior business experience would really hurt when trying to find a job afterwards.
I don't think that will hurt you as much as you think. While you are older than the typical inexperienced MBA grad, there are plenty of save-the-world types who did the Peace Corps or TFA and go to bschool to cash in that karma. You might have a slightly tougher pitch to make, but it wouldn't be unheard of by any stretch.
Honestly, I feel like law is something that you need to be 100% committed to doing because law school is a huge investment. You don't want to end up in debt and stuck in an industry you hate. If you really want to go in to finance, your best option would probably be an MBA, but that is also an investment (time and money wise) so, again, make sure it's something you're 100% committed to doing. I don't want to be rude, but it seems like you're grasping at anything that will give you a prestigious career and decent income. There are other roads to that besides law or finance so I would do a little "soul searching" and find out what your true passions are and see if you can find a career suitable. It's never too late by the way.
I wouldn't have put it this way, but minus the prestige, that's not far off the mark. Then again, that's why almost all my friends went into finance or law straight out of undergrad. I might not be interested in law or finance as a hobby, but as a career they have always seemed like a good fit. The "soul searching" I did as an undergrad left me with a career in a subject I love but with a job I don't.
There are some people who are most happy working in a field they're passionate about. PhD students are a good example. But I learned during my degree and the jobs I had after that work is work, and it will be difficult no matter what it is. What makes me feel most fulfilled about my job at the end of the day is not whether I'm in a field I'm passionate about, but the compensation I earn doing it. If I could do it over again, I would have majored in econ as an undergrad and moved into finance immediately after. But I can't change the past, and my question now is whether I can make that transition without being in debt for the next ten years of my life. If I can't, I accept my lot as a teacher and move on. If I can, it seems like something worth pursuing, right?
Is an MBA the only way in?
At least you're honest about it, which is refreshing. Just know that the compensation might not be worth it if you don't have any time to enjoy it... (just playing devil's advocate here).
I guess the best plan for you might be to continue applying to jobs now, even if you're slightly under qualified. Work that networking as much as you can and try to broaden your horizons. There's no harm in applying so just send your resume everywhere.
Also might be a good idea to send in some applications to some b-schools and law programs. If you get accepted to a top school it might increase your chances of getting a higher salary when you graduate to help pay off those debts so the investment could be worth it (and then you have an acceptance to fall back on if you're not finding any jobs).
Finally, I wonder if it would be possible to looking in to doing a part time MBA or master's so you can work while doing it. Yes it will take longer but it might help offset the debt?
Not sure about whether or not an MBA is the only way in, and I wouldn't take anyone's word for it really. Just try to actually get in, now. If you're not getting in, ask for feedback and maybe send off some emails to different firms that denied you and see if they think an MBA would improve your chances of getting a job offer. Trial and error!
Is there something I can do now, like training in financial modeling, that I can put on my resume to make me qualified?
If you think you can get into T6 law, I'd go. If you score high enough, there would be some schools slightly out of T6 that will give you scholarship packages. 28 is not that old. That's the same age as most MBA applicants and both will come out with similar debt levels. I'd aim for a good law school that offers a good financial package. Aim for corporate law or there's also working in public service for 10 years to get your loan forgiven.
There is no silver bullet solution here. Another possibility might be to study for and pass CFA L1 and look into ER roles, but this is also very time consuming, and like others have mentioned you would need to decide you are 100% committed to following through. It took me a long time to decide I wanted to pursue and MBA - applying this year if I can get it together - but once you get over that initial hump of deciding what to pursue, you will feel less in limbo. Check out some schools, look up MBA tours coming through your city and sit in to listen - although very helpful, you can't get a real solid feel for things that will really resonate with your preferences searching online.
Wouldn't my work experience keep me out of the M7? Teaching and library work don't exactly point to management skills.
Exactly, that's why I posted with my answer above I'm not sure why people are thinking you have a chance at a top mba school. Even a top 20 is a stretch. You will have a MUCH higher chance at a law school over business school. You will come out with similar debt levels anyway. If you can see yourself having a career in law, I'd go the law path.
Given my background above, how much would CFA L1 help me get a job? The fees are ridiculous, and since I was a humanities major, I don't even know whether I could pass.
First of all, this does not have to do anything with your major. You just have to study for it. A LOT. I believe somewhere around 200-300 hours, but don't take my word for it.
I don't think that a CFA L1 will help you a whole lot and that you should be focusing your energy on something else.
Why exactly wouldn't it help?
I think it would be wiser for you to spend time on studying up on the industry, developing pitches, etc.
This is only my personal opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.
You're not too old... A few tips:
MBA seems better for you--less years in school, and your background may make you 'unique'--MBA schools love that! Remember the kind of people that work in admissions...
Crush the GMAT: With your liberal arts background, show you remember high school math--GMAT is a 'desire' exam, so literally just put time into studying for it, it's not 'hard' but you're competing against smart people who have dedicated themselves to scoring high...
Who cares, all you need is a T15-20 Bschool for it to make sense, don't listen to what people on here say. You're not going to do banking, there are tons of jobs that pay well in Corp Finance, Marketing, Strategy, that won't require 100 hour weeks (avoid consulting or banking--don't get swept up)--Note: Consulting firms may like you b/c of your age and 'educational background'
At this point you'll graduate B-School comfortably at age 32. You'll be fine. Not sure how 'good' the schools you have degrees from are, but with your background in academia, you'll be respected.
Trinko-
I think it really depends on how high up in finance you want to begin. At your age/experience, you could probably land an entry level commercial banking job to get some industry experience and training under your belt and then try to switch over. I am stuck on your "too old for an MBA" comment; average age of the HBS 2015 class is 27 and 28 at Columbia. There is no short cut to this profession so you need to realize that you may be in your early to mid-thirties (geriatric to you millennials, I know) before you start make some serious head-way in your career. I can tell you though, it is better late than never! I am 34 and started later than most because of military service, the years will start flying by so you might as well spend them on working towards what you want. Law School and MBA are great ways to accomplish this, the other road you can take is not so certain imho. Best of luck!
I misjudged the age of MBA students. In law, people are significantly younger when they enter (about 24). I think an MBA is a high risk investment. I would leave 160,000 in debt, and no guarantee I could pay it off. If there's a way to make this transition without debt (CFA L1), I'd like to take that route. That way, if I'm not seeing any pay off, I won't be in a catastrophic situation.
CFA L1 won't help you.
It would help to know why.
You're midunderstanding the purpose of the CFA.
Like others have said, your best bet is the MBA. Don't fret over the debt if you can get into a good program. The money will take care of itself.
Because a CFA is specifically geared at research/asset management roles and is more of an "advanced study" type program that acts as an accelerator for people already in industry. It's already documented how the CFA is very overstated as a way to "break in" or as your first foray with finance. Simply, put you need a total overall to get into the industry, a reset if you will. You need the 2 years of resume building (summer internships, classes, part time internships, networking after classes, clubs) as opposed to just CFA self study to transtion. You would also benefit from the structured recruiting. There are plenty of solid paying interesting jobs (100 k +) that are attainable from top 15-20 mba schools (marketing, f 500 corp fin, commercial banking) that you wont have sell your soul for. Good luck.
Thanks. I understand all of this, and I think it's all correct. My fear though is that an MBA a huge financial investment with no guarantee of a job in the end, especially since recruiters will see I lack prior work experience. If I can make the transition by using my pedigree and self-study without giving up my current job and incurring debt, that seems like a much safer option, even if it means fewer possibilities. I know a CFA isn't ideal for this scenario, but the only reason I would chose an MBA is if every other option were drastically less likely to work.
all you gotta do: get your story straight and network. i don't think it matters if your underqualified/overqualified if your at the right place at the right time. and you get there by networking. the importance here is genuinely evaluating why you want to change career paths and packaging that nicely and selling yourself. i think you also need to know your options in "finance" bc there are sooo many different jobs. go research.
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