UMich Undergrad For IB Recruiting
Saw this post that broke down UCLA recruiting
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/ucla-under…
And there was mention in the comments of doing one for UVA / Umich as well as questions of its really different than the recruiting environment at UCLA.
The OP in that post started by mentioning the school doesn't give a shit if you get a job or not. Same at Michigan. Recruiting for finance at Michigan 100% runs through the clubs. A lot of people on here mention how Mich is a great school / target for banking, and yes, every year U of M gets offers at literally every bank on the street, but to be clear, all of those placements are from people in the best clubs which are (in order of placement / selectivity): MII, GIC, MIBC, and AIC as well as the business frats. Recruiting for those clubs is brutal with hundreds applying for about 10-20 spots in each class; there are an online application/screen followed by two rounds of interviews. Landing a spot in one of the clubs is pretty much required if you want to be competitive during recruiting because there are a lot of exclusive opportunities for those students and the club's aumni networks pull for their kids. So when someone says something like "XYZ recruits at Michigan," well yes, that's technically true, but in reality, they hire 1-2 kids from MII every year; if you're not in the club, you don't have a shot. All this isn't to say if you make it into a club, you're guaranteed a good job. Every year, there are people that fuck up for various reasons (low GPA, bad at interviewing or technicals, or unlucky), and considering the clubs are taking kids that are first semester freshman, it's no surprise they get some bad ones who got lucky in the interview process.
All in all, places that regularly take top Michigan kids from these clubs include: Ares (1-2 a year), Evercore (2-3 M&A a year), Moelis (6-8), PJT (2-3 M&A), Greenhill (1-2), M Klein/Raine/Allen&Co (1-2 each), PWP & Lazard (not a target for them, but 1-2 each year). On the bulge bracket side, MS, Citi, and BAML take a fuck ton of Michigan kids (probably 10ish each) and every other bulge takes a couple, but tbh asides from MS, most of the best kids at Michigan take EB offers. Funny part is there are always people in the fall that get CVP, GS, and JPM offers, but they usually aren't even the best kids, because all the good ones signed in spring. Sometimes when there's a truly exceptional kid, there are one-off placements at shops like KRR, Bain Cap, PJT RSSG, Point72, Blackstone, etc.
There are also a bunch of other lower tier clubs; I was involved with one when I was a student there, and even those kids get a lot of looks at the bulges, as well as a fuck ton of kids getting MM/Lower tier Big Bank looks (RBC, WF, HL, Jeffries, Blair, PJ Solomon, Piper all hire a lot of kids from Mich). All in all, Michigan is a good school to be at for banking, no doubt, but don't think you'll have access to the top placement unless you're one of the best kids at school and part of the 5ish% of kids in the best clubs.
ok
Can someone do this for Berkeley? I heard if you're not in DSP, you don't have a shot at the top firms/groups?
How much interest is there in one of these write-ups for Berkeley? As a disclaimer, I'm not in any of the "top" clubs at Berkeley, but I am pretty integrated in the business community and have friends in pretty much all of the notable clubs.
5+ silver bananas and I'll do a quick write up soon
So Michigan doesn't care if you get a job or not you say? Do you want someone to hold your hand through your whole life?
There are a ton of undergrads that foam at the mouth for an opportunity in IB/PE, so yeah being one of the top students at any school is going to be a necessity nowadays to stand out in a world saturated with participation trophies and kids that think they are special for showing up to class hungover.
deleted.
Instructions: Ask your roommate's daddy, 50% chance he's an MD at JPM
I'm guessing you meant "high finance" or IB / PE, but even then there's still a handful of econ and STEM majors who aren't in these clubs and manage to land internships and FT gigs in these fields. Are there fewer of these kids? Definitely. Is it more challenging for them to get looks? Absolutely. Do they land at EBs and BBs? Probably not.
While I agree with your last statement that kids don't have access to top placement unless they're in the best clubs, your post makes it seem like anyone who isn't in a club has pretty much no shot at banking. I feel like this discourages anyone who isn't in Ross or one of these clubs from pursuing this career.
Whether you're in one of these clubs or not, Michigan is still a great school with a strong alumni presence on Wall Street, and it's entirely possible to recruit IB without doing these clubs. Most banks post openings on their websites for all to apply -- not just kids in top (or low-tier) clubs. Your post sounds like somebody who's still salty for not being in one of those top clubs and not landing at a better bank.
As someone who went to Michigan, recruited for and landed an IB internship without being in Ross or a club, and then after graduating saw the other side of it when leading Ross recruiting at my current company for a year (albeit CF not IB), this is all a load of shit. A group of upperclassmen running some clubs whose funds they'll use for beer money and pizza do no yield more influence or care more about the success of fellow students more than the administration of a top university. To even think so, you're off your rocker.
You're wrong. For starters, when the OP said recruiting for finance, they probably meant for the most competitive wall street jobs. As someone that graduated from Mich last year, works at an EB and just did interviews for our summer analyst program, I 100% texted the seniors I knew in the club I was in and asked for the names / resumes of the kids they thought were good. I also have friends at other EBs that did the same thing, not to mention the well known fact that one of the best buyside shops that takes undergrads hires one kid a year from Michigan and that kid has always been from the same investing club on campus (including 3 presidents in a row); gee whiz what a coincidence, right? Sure, for corporate finance, and marketing, and for some middle market investment banks that actually come to do interviews on campus in the fall, the OCR office plays some part in the process (usually nothing more than booking rooms), but for all the EBs and BBs that go in the spring and summer, the University is cut out of the process altogether. If you want to know how powerless the "administration of a top university" is, start out by recognizing they can't even enforce their own rules on recruiting timelines to companies that hire their kids. The best proof I can give you is that the University Administration held a meeting a few years ago with the leaders of the top clubs on campus to ask them "to stop monopolizing and circumventing the recruiting process at top firms" (their exact words).
I went to a top target where I quickly realized that business frats also had a major role in recruiting on-campus and led to great outcomes for most members interested in IB. There seemed to be a very high correlation between those who were in business frats and those who were in the most competitive clubs (whether it be for IB or consulting). I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case at Michigan. I've even heard some analysts say to the juniors in their business frat that they are aiming to get anyone from their frat who is interested in the bank an interview. This definitely did not mean that if you weren't a part of a frat or club, then you weren't getting a top job. It did seem very obvious though that those who were in a top business frat who were going for IB or Consulting got a solid internship.
Know the conversation was mainly about clubs but curious to see if anyone can opine on how business frats play a role in getting top jobs.
As a Ross grad who was not a member of any finance clubs and got hired by a BB (have since moved to EB RX), this is not an accurate post.
“Michigan doesn’t give a shit if you get a job or not” is a huge cold take and actually chapped my ass. The sophomore course load literally has required classes that cover resume writing, networking and LinkedIn profiles. The career department lines up on-campus interviews with every major bank (and most small ones) and you have peer coaches and full time counselors who will have unlimited meetings with you anytime you want to go over your networking approach, profile, resume and will mock interview you and help connect you with alumni. If you aren’t using these resources then that’s on you, not the school. Business schools are ranked partially based on job placement and that is very evident at Michigan.
Zinburger is also exactly right - the same kids going for these clubs are the same ones who are living and breathing finance and doing IB prep in the finance lab for fun. Naturally they are well prepared for interviews, and it becomes self selecting while the clubs are an endless cycle of interview prep for new members.
Most people not doing some form of finance club are just preparing less in general. If you read the guides, network (Michigan has one of the most passionate alumni networks that exist, club member or not) and hustle then you have the same chance on your own as any of the clubs. Most just don’t do this.
The comment on Ross being the only way into IB is also not accurate. Again, it is self selecting and most of the non-Ross students just don’t network as aggressively as their Ross peers (compounded by the massive support the business school gives its students). Two examples to back this up: my first roommate was an Econ major who went to all of the Ross networking events (yes, you are allowed to do this) and got hired by a BB. One of my colleagues was another Econ major and got hired through networking. I was on the school recruiting team at my BB and was explicitly told major and Ross/non-Ross is not a criteria they care about. It just happens that the business school kids are usually more aggressive about networking and are more prepared/polished.
tldr; bullshit take. Michigan gives you equal odds to network and get interview opportunities. It’s up to you how hard you prepare and network and how polished you are in the interview.
Those club rankings are a bit outdated. AIC is probably at the top and GIC is washed up.
Lmao not true at all. MII and GIC are still top choice for all the underclassmen and as someone that just did recruiting for an EB and have michigan friends that did recruiting for other EBs, the best resumes in our stack were MII / GIC. Seems like they were hot commodities though because a few of our best candidates got poached and signed a different offer before our super day. Talked to seniors while we were recruiting and everyone seemed to agree that MII, GIC, and MIBC were better than any of the other clubs including AIC, and MIG. Most of the kids from those other clubs that get a good offer are usually also in MIBC or GIC.
I think it's open to everyone, as in no application. Very recently started. People I've met in it are all friendly. Doesn't have the alumni network of MII/MIBC yet though, but a bunch of their graduated seniors are going to GS so maybe in a year or so it could have some pull. Pretty sure the more established clubs mentioned in this post strongly dislike BAM because their board opensourced all other club resources (basically took confidential info from the other clubs and shared it with all their members to help them recruit)
Wow, kudos to them for sticking it to the man! Also, they never had "confidential" info. It was just extra resources that their members could leverage to get ahead in the recruiting process.
Great to see that organizations like this exist at universities that are making resources available to all students to democratize the process.