Most people think having kids is the best thing to ever happen to them
Kids seem largely an expense on this forum, but haven't you noticed most people are incredibly happy to have children? Nearly every father and mother say having a baby was the best thing to ever happen to them. This is after the fact, when the baby is born. Yeah they are really busy, but it seems worth it and rewarding to most couples.
You’re getting old - when do you plan on settling down? Would you ever have kids with someone you aren’t married to? Do you plan on a prenup?
No I’m only having kids if married. Maybe will have them in my 40s. When do you want to have kids?
Not anytime soon - thinking mid 30’s would be ideal. Will have enough money to not worry about anything then
Better freeze those sperm, fella. Sperm quality goes down after 30, same as eggs.
sooner than that man. ever year you wait is an extra year of your life you don't get with your kids.
When I was 25 I thought I’d have kids at 35, but haven’t met ‘the one’ yet.
You mean pursuing the literal purpose of human (frankly all) evolution by having children and passing on your genes makes people feel happy and fulfilled? It's almost like all the "don't have kids cuz climate change/no freedom to do whatever you want at the drop of a hat" and other anti-child, party hard, work forever bullshit is just that. Bullshit.
Main driver for me wanting to be rich is precisely to be able to have a ton of kids and provide for all of them. If the money you make won't exist after you die by being passed down to family wtf is even the point of working hard? I'm sure as shit not leaving it all to some random charity or the goddamn government.
This essentially is me. I used to work hard to get rich and impress people. Now that I have kids, my sole motivation is to make as much money as possible for us while minimizing the amount of time actually at work/away from them. Having said that, I had a fucking blast in my 20s so I was ready to have kids/settle down in my 30s.
Having children is looked down on this site because most of the people posting are in high school/college and essentially have no clue.
Its honestly hard to think of anything that means less to me than 'prestige' now that I have kids.
Except for the fact that wait for it: You work longer hours for a longer time when you have kids before you hit a retirement amount. So it’s not coming from the “work forever” type of people but from the opposite!
Assuming you live in a T1 city there are many ways to spend your money if you want to. You don’t have to save and give it all to a charity or the government. You can travel and take fancy vacations and do whatever you want whenever you want.
Preach!
what's the purpose of creating people so that they can create people? what is it all for?
Congrats, you've asked one of the most basic questions in all of existence. What is the meaning of life if not to live and perpetuate life itself through having offspring to carry on your legacy.
It's the basis of all life. Whichever humans had a greater desire to procreate had more offspring, thus those same genetic characteristics that led to their desire to procreate got passed on. This could be things like a greater prevalence of neurotransmitters (i.e. I believe serotonin is highly linked to attachment to children), hormones increased libido, etc. That is just evolution - those who carry traits that make them more likely to have children are also more likely to pass those same traits on.
For many, they would say the point of being rich is to enjoy life, not to have someone to hand money down to. Without worrying about keeping money aside for kids when you die, the option isn't to set it aside for charity, it's to spend it on cool stuff to upgrade your life.
The other thought process for people (including with good incomes) is they don't need as much for a good quality of life. Instead of working until 60 they can work until 40. So kind of to your last point, there isn't a point to working that hard - instead you can stop working, or working as hard, and pursue other things in life
What a bizarre post, is the sky blue? Does a cheese burger taste good when drunk?
Of course people love their kids and the meaning it brings to their life.
Thanks for the hot take.
I am still trying to figure out the objective of this post. Is it to get the opinion of having kids from guys in their 20s. Most guys on this site are going to think kids are an expense because it is just not a priority at the moment due to their age. Priorities change as you get older and yeah, most parents thinks having kids is rewarding, including me.
I think that when you have kids, in a way there are also more highs and lows. As you may know, I like sports a lot and watching your kid play sports is filled with emotion, both good and bad. When your kid strikes out the side or turns a double play, you are on a high. You also experience lows when your kids is not succeeding. This does not stop when your kid gets older. You could see the roller coaster of emotion at a recent Met's game when Carlos Carrasco's (35) dad was in the stands watching him pitch. They kept showing his dad's reaction to pitches. The dad was visibly upset when Carrasco was walking people but then gave him a standing ovation when he got out of a jam.
You self-admitted that your son was autistic and that he hated you. How exactly do you find raising your son fulfilling?
Damn dude
I would like to know the under over on how many accounts you have. Please stop making shit up. I am not sure what you are getting out of spreading this nonsense.
Because most people on these forums are teenagers or in their early 20s, making good money or at least have the prospect of making good money, and enjoy play-acting like they think a banker should by reducing everything in life to a cost/benefit analysis.
Lots of things in life are rewarding despite being a financial drain. And goals and desires change as people mature and grow. When I was in my early 20s the last thing I wanted was the responsibility of children - years later, that isn't true anymore.
It always pays to remember that this site is mostly inhabited by people who are barely out of their teens.
I'd like to have children someday, but finding someone that would make a good mother and also meets the qualities of a good partner has proven to be one of the biggest challenges of my adult life. I'm still young though, so I'm not in a rush
You can find a women and turn her to a good mother.
it´s hard to find a really good girl nowadays
Or maybe the people who would make good mothers are looking at you and thinking "this person wouldn't make a good father and partner".
Always worth pushing back on the mentality that it is always someone else at fault, or who is lacking. Maybe it's you. Asking that question will probably better prepare you to be a father or partner in the first place.
At a young age, I feel our society focuses on stupid things like changing diapers and having less freedom when it comes to kids. All of that stuff melts away when you get home from work and your kid looks at you like Superman walked through the door. It's definitely something great to experience in a lifetime that no amount of trips to Cancun or Sunday Fundays as a single person can replicate.
Couldn’t agree more. My kids are the best thing that ever happened to me. Honestly most young people these days are so selfish that they see kids as a hinderance. But seeing your kid walk the first time >>>> any trip, party or sexual experience you had in your 20s.
Maybe because it is?
As the resident old guy with no kids and no interest in having kids, I’ll weigh in.
There is so much stigma in our society against people who don’t want to have children, particularly women, that it is actually really hard to voice such an opinion without being met by insanely judgmental responses, typically with people telling you that you will change your mind. Literally, people used to tell me: “you’re still young, you’ll change your mind when you’re older.” … like these random people know me better than I know myself. It is tiresome and definitely causes people to avoid telling others when they don’t want to have children.
As someone who has openly stated for nearly 20 years now that I don’t want to have children, I’ve had a lot of people open up to me in secretive agreement. It wasn’t unusual in business school in particular, where a lot of career-focused women who were in their late 20s would admit privately to me that they’d rather not have kids. It really is a shame that the default assumption is that everyone wants kids and if someone doesn’t, they owe the world an explanation as to why. The same is true when it comes to drinking. Someone who chooses not to drink gets all sort of pressure from peers and needs to explain their choice, as opposed to the people who are literally poisoning their body and willfully dropping cognitive function who don’t need to explain their choice at all. This may sound extreme but it is the way that society currently functions in the US / Europe.
Back to the kids point — I have a few female friends who have told me that they aren’t particularly passionate about being mothers. In more than one occasion, I’ve heard more or less the comment “I don’t think I have motherly instincts, but I’m hoping that once the child is born I’ll develop them.” Motherly instincts referring to the desire to be a mother.
Look, it is no surprise that people claim that having children makes them happy when asked. But the evidence actually suggests otherwise. Read the book “Stumbling on Happiness” by Daniel Gilbert. He references a study in which parents are essentially asked to measure their happiness each year from before their kids were born to after they go off to college. Guess what? Happiness drops way down upon having kids, stays down until it falls off a cliff when the kids become teenagers, and doesn’t return to pre-kid happiness levels until after they go off to college. So as far as I’m concerned kids can certainly bring happiness, but it’s a 20+ year investment before you’re finally in ‘positive happiness’ territory.
Last comment: I’m more than happy to have people disagree with me and I would never tell someone to avoid having children if they want them. I just don’t think its fair to default to ‘kids make you happier.’ Rant over!
Solid comment - I would poke at the happiness level post-send off to college. Is this level a high that non-parents will never experience? How do older people view their lives in terms of fulfillment between parents and non parents?
Found a link to the chart online. You can get a general sense of the trendline…. And my apologies, I misremembered it as happiness, but it is actually a chart of ‘marital satisfaction’ (which I’d argue is probably quite correlated to happiness … happy wife, happy life).
You can draw your own conclusions based on the chart: https://readthewoolf.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/gilbert-graph.png
This. I choose to be childless too. To me, kids are not only an expense, but I have some deep philosophical reasons to not have them, and it's annoying when people tell me I'm gonna change my mind.
The idea that having children is an inherently fulfilling thing to me is a massive lie. It's a fairy tale sold by Hollywood feel-good movies who are nothing more than fiction. Look around you: do you really think most people are even suited to be parents? I'm sure that there are a lot of parents out there who are genuinely happy because of their children, but I think that most of them, including most who say that they love being parents, are lying to you and themselves when they say that. Bringing a human being into life and raising them is a lot of work, and we are taught to take it for granted. We're not animals in the wild, so having children entails far more than acting on an evolutionary impulse.
A lot of people regret their children, and even more, don't want kids. You'll rarely hear someone who had kids say they regret their kids because that's a horrible thing to say publicly. One, you already had the kids so you might as well make the best of it, and two, if you say you regret your kids then people are going to look at you like you're Hitler. However, there are A LOT of people who are miserable with their children. Mostly the people that couldn't afford them, and people that lost their freedom after they had children. You are no longer the priority after you have children. Your every decision revolves around how it will affect the child you brought into this world for the next 18 years (probably more). You can't just pick up and move, you can't work where ever you want to, you can't do what you want when you want, you can't take risks, etc. It gets even worse if you had some children you couldn't afford so now you're struggling to support your children. It's almost impossible to make it out of poverty with children for a reason. Not everyone is built for children, and some people just don't like kids. It takes a special type of personality and patience to get along with kids. It takes another type of person to get along with teenagers. A lot of people don't have these personalities.
There are advantages with raising a child, you get to have a child, you get to build a family with your offspring, you get to have a legacy, you get to see your child grow, you get to teach them things, and you get to love them. However, there are a lot of people that don't give a F about all that and enjoy their freedom. It's just not a popular thing to admit publicly so you'll always hear the standard responses about children making everyone happy, and having children being the best thing to ever happen to them.
A lot of people suffer with their children in silence. You'll only hear the truth on anonymous forums, late nights with a trusted few, and after a few too many drinks. You'll rarely hear the stories about marriages changing after the children came, and the husband was neglected, or one of the children was special needs and the burden was too much and this isn't what they expected, or that the parents miss their freedom, or that the parents miss their peace, or that their child grew up to be a little shit or a thot and causes them nothing but trouble, or that they regret having children and wish they had an abortion. No one is going to say that publicly, maybe in private if they trust you.
Spot on. To continue your post, a lot of people think their marriage is an exception to the divorce statistics and they will forever live happily ever after. From what I've seen, people who are really eager to get married and have kids usually had a healthy family dynamic growing up whose parents stayed married. Don't blame them for wanting to replicate that for themselves but they're also unaware of how legally binding a marriage is and what can go wrong. You could think you found the perfect person to raise a family with, but one day they could just wake up and decide they don't love you anymore, or completely change once you have kids and go into the deep end of crazy. Because you didn't sign a prenup, you now have to forfeit over half of everything you've ever worked for to your now ex wife and kids for child support, who you now only see part time. Family court and child support is a whole other fucked up topic itself. Being broke and having to restart on your life with two kids you have to support is soul crushing.
It's like that Bill Burr quote "Realize that sleeping on a futon when you're 30 is not the worst thing. You know what's worse, sleeping in a king bed next to a wife you're not really in love with but for some reason you married, and you got a couple kids, and you got a job you hate. You'll be laying there fantasizing about sleeping on a futon".
You and the SBs must be very enjoyable people to be around
most people have shitty lives, so I'm not surprised at all that having kids is the best thing they can get in life.
A lot of them are lying btw. Because:
1) it will make them feel better about themself. no parent wants to say they wish they hadn't had kids - that would make them feel like a piece of shit. and it's too late now that you have kids. can't just throw them out. so the best you can do is put on a positive attitude even if you feel miserable.
2) it is just an expected thing to say in a social interaction. when somebody asks you "how are you doing", you say "good" even if you are not good at all. same happens when somebody asks "how are your kids". you have to say that "even though sometimes it's difficult to deal with them, they are a blessing and the best that happened in your life", even if you haven't slept or had sex or enjoyed your life for years.
I'm glad you said "most".
Had our first recently, wouldn't change a thing. Planning at least one more.
Congrats
As others have said, having children is a natural paramount importance in life, at least for most people. One of the key examples I give is I used to stay in touch with a really bright, career oriented woman. She was a Stanford MBA grad with IB and PE experience operating at a bn dollar company as COO. She was working around the clock to prove herself in anticipation of the CEO exiting and with the notion that she was next in line. This was her dream her entire life. She told me that around that same time her sister had a child, and when she held that child in her arms, her entire script flipped. She suddenly realized that some things are more important than job title and career path, even if they sound as mundane as having children. She shortly after had children with her husband and only returned to work part-time, years later. This is of course an extreme example of how quickly the transition can happen, but oftentimes people in their early to mid 30s feel a sudden urge to start a family.
For me personally, as someone in their 20s, I dont see where else I would derive my meaning in life. I dont plan on committing my life to my work, and even with hobbies and a girlfriend, I already find myself searching for something "else". Isaiah_53_5 💎🙌💎🙌💎 I am somewhat surprised you dont have that same desire. I think once you find "the one", your perspective would change. I would also recommend prioritizing dating so that you dont meet the one in your 40s because then you would have to have children right away.
I do have that desire and prioritize dating. I just haven’t met the one yet. I’m really picky and don’t want to settle or compromise.
You’re a player who doesn’t want to get married at all.
As pointed out above, I'd say the fallacy is more people who like their kids tell you, while people who don't like their kids don't say anything. If you had to break it down, I'd say you're looking at 4 groups:
1. People who want to have kids and have them
2. People who don't know if they want kids and have them, but enjoy them.
3. People who don't know if they want kids and have them, but dislike them (could also lump in people who don't want kids but somehow they have an "oops" baby)
4. People who don't want to have kids and don't
Other points:
- for some people, they enjoy having kids/family of their own, because they really don't have any direction in their lives. Meaning, they have a job they don't like, aren't ambitious, don't have a super close circle of friends/family. So by having kids, it gives them something to do or live for.
- I'd also encompass my point above with people who want to be identified as a "mom" or even a "dad" because I think it excuses them from having to go out into the world and do stuff. For example, I have some friends whose wives never really had a job, went to college but if was basically a waste of money, then started having kids right away. It's kind of an excuse to not really have to enter the real world.
- Some people have kids because their friends have kids, and they don't want to be left behind or want to "raise their kids together".
- in a greedy sense, some people like having kids because it seems someone has to depend on them. Same reason in a way some people have pets (i always say pets are different because if someone was my sole source of food/water, going outside and care, I'd be happy when they walk through the door too.)
I think there is also a group of people who end up hating their kids as they raised them exactly like themselves especially when the parents are poor role models. It compounds the misery they feel and they just blame the kid for his mistakes without looking at themselves introspectively.
Another group - people who want kids but it isn't what they expected and they hate it and themselves
If you’re writing from experience … F
You're correct. I'd almost lump that in with criteria 3 I laid out above. But I have seen people like that...we probably notice people like that more because they don't control their kids well.
There are probably a lot of sub groups involved, for example, people who don't want kids but feel they are forced to by a spouse/parent.
spot on
What I don't understand and is, quite frankly, very disappointing is the subtle criticism and spite you get from other people when you mention you don't want to have kids. And no, I'm not talking about the one guy who makes it into a big deal and chastises other people for choosing to have children. I'm talking about being in a friendly, social setting and someone asks a question about if/when everyone wants to have kids and its your turn to answer and you dare say "no"? You can definitely feel the judgement from other people. Like you are selfish or something. And not just that, but if you are a man, you are viewed as lesser than. If anything, I feel that it's selfish for a lot of adults - whether poor, immature, or just no ready - to have kids, yet it seems like they all get a free pass.
Surprised by a lot of the comments.
I didn't want kids in my 20s (thought I'd never want kids). Never felt bad about it. Looked forward to a stress free life, having a ton of money and time to spend on myself and with others I cared about, etc. Didn't / don't feel selfish about any part of that. Have an older family member who's crushing it, doesn't have kids, and in many ways jealous that that is how it pans out (minus the time since they're always working, but does have plenty of money to do whatever he wants, can retire whenever, etc.)
Met the right person years ago and as our relationship evolved, talked more about the future, etc., we saw a path to a happy life with children. Have 2 and it's awesome. Both of us are high earners so it takes a lot of that pressure off either of us individually, we communicate well, and it's very fulfilling. Doesn't mean there's less time for us, and there are times where sure, it would be awesome to have no responsibility. But so far the joys from having have beaten the things we miss from not having.
Also the fam is most important now. Not that I'm not still on "the treadmill," I just care a lot less about it (i.e. it isn't big swinging dick or bust for me). Career achievement is no longer my sole/main source of joy and happiness.
To a lot of these comments - I never felt judged when I didn't want kids. I work with a lot of 40+ that don't have kids and would never think twice about it. The only time anyone thinks about it is when someone puts on display a super bachelor lifestyle (e.g. a 60 year old at work talking about going on vacation with his 27-year old girlfriend).
Having a child will be the most important thing you will ever do in your life unless you are in the smallest minority of people. If you are a IB / PE chimp (I’m one of you guys) I can guarantee you that you won’t do anything more important.
Surprised no one has mentioned selection effect - people who have kids tend to be the people who wanted kids, so they are more likely to be happy to have them. Interesting survey would be people who were "randomly selected" to have kids (i.e. accidental pregnancy, etc).
most breeders are selfish assholes
anyone in this thread trying to be an edgy anti-kid emo troll or controversial:
stfu, you are someone's kid
Was your dad an investment banker ?
Just because your parents did it doesn’t mean you have to.
just a quick question to all you breeder idiots out there (millenials)
when your kids become adults..what kind of world will they live in? what happens if they dont go to a target and wind up on the street?
I understand what this means, but you have to recognize it isn't all or nothing. Not everyone wants or needs to be upper class to be happy. For many generations of families, working a "generic" but good white collar office job, having children, and them working a "generic" white collar but good white collar office job, and in their free time doing what they please, is a pretty good existence
the problem is, there is no middle class anymore. you aint raising no family on a 100k a year in a decent neighborhood.
People who have kids in 2022 are either narcissists or stupid people. There are over 7 billion people on the planet, and we need more for some fuck to be Hollywood happy?
Why is 7 billion people your cut-off? Are your parents narcissistic / stupid for having you? There are many, many times throughout one's life that they feel the world is going to shit
I feel like most people have kids because "that's what you're supposed to do". Or they feel pressured by family/friends/society. Newsflash, having kids is not a one size fits all type of thing. I despise those that have kids, but can't afford them (and know that beforehand). I see a lot of low-income people with multiple kids. Nothing like good, old govt subsidies! The worst is when kids are seen as the "retirement package" for the parents. Absolutely wrong-- parents should raise their kids with the highest quality of life possible and expect nothing in return.
Personally, I'm in the best position (financially and emotionally) to have kids right now. But with everything going on in the world, not sure if it makes sense. Yes, there is always shit going on, but growing up, I was never afraid of getting killed while at school. Bullying was only limited at school, now with social media, bullying can happen anytime/anywhere. The college I went to had an acceptance rate of 30% only about 15 years ago; now it's less than 10% and trending lower.
You have to assume a theistic worldview and actually believe in something larger than yourself for it all to make sense. If you don't and you still want marriage and kids you are probably not being intellectually honest at some level in your thought process.
From a purely selfish, evolutionary perspective, what kids really do is delay your retirement, take away your personal time, add a new layer of anxiety that you will have till the day you die. I don't understand people who say that it is natural to want to propagate your gene pool, you still have to pay for kids and take care of them and you get nothing tangible in return.
Nothing to add but great article about this
https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2021/11/does-having-kids-make-you-happy/620576/
When I say that raising my sons is the best thing I’ve ever done, I’m not saying that they gave me pleasure in any simple day-to-day sense, and I’m not saying that they were good for my marriage. I’m talking about something deeper, having to do with satisfaction, purpose, and meaning. It’s not just me. When you ask people about their life’s meaning and purpose, parents say that their lives have more meaning than those of nonparents. A study by the social psychologist Roy Baumeister and his colleagues found that the more time people spent taking care of children, the more meaningful they said their life was—even though they reported that their life was no happier.
the cost of living has tripled since 1990
wages are flat
a very small percentage of people wind up working in finance/law/medicine etc
nice life
No kids is the way.
Lame
do you have any other rebukes other than insulting me?
Don’t pander to others’ expectations or needs. You lead the life you want. If you want kids, great. If not, great. Life neither starts or stops with you.
I have two boys. I love them dearly. But I was also happy when when we had no kids or when we just had the first born. I don’t think my life experience would have been complete without a child. but when to have a child depends on a variety of factors. And having the second was not as critical for me to complete my character arc.
Once upon a time children were assets. Now they are liabilities. Having kids is both a blessing and a sacrifice. It’s a non stop labor of love and a non stop amount of work. If you’re not ready don’t do it.
I'm in my 20's and my wife and I had our first baby a few months ago. Whenever someone asks me if I like having a kid I usually tell them joy doesn't equal happiness. The first few weeks of my kid's life honestly were pretty awful - not sleeping, wife was still recovering, constant crying, etc. and to be honest there were definitely a lot of times I felt like I made a mistake and should've waited having kids. As he's grown up a bit though, things have gotten a lot easier. He's still a baby and needs constant monitoring, but his personality is beginning to develop as well as his ability to interact with me, which makes me really start to appreciate him. For me personally, despite feeling like I made a mistake etc. I've come to realize that at the end of the day I always wanted to experience having kids and for us it was a good decision to have him sooner than later based on where we were as a family. Sure, I can't devote 100% to my career, have to cut down on my hobbies, etc., but ultimately this is starting to seem more and more like a good decision for my wife and I. All that to say, people are different and you have to do what's best for you. Sometimes that means waiting to have kids or not having them all. I think rather than criticizing people for their life decisions (not saying you are) or saying there's an absolute one way to live life (like saying having kids later is always better), let people do their own thing.
Nothing wrong if you want them, I am quite happy not having any but that is my preference which may or not change in the future at least of the great advantages of being a male.
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