Power Couples?
What are your guys thoughts on power couples? Do you want a girlfriend/wife with a demanding career? Do you prefer girls with lower stress jobs or even housewives? When you have children do you want a wife who works a lot (60+ hours a week)?
Forget gender roles, having two parents working long hours and being absent in their children's lives for the pursuit of wealth is horrible and selfish. Try to explain to your kids that you viewed them as less important than the bonus or promotion without getting backlash, resentment or hatred.
Eh. I grew up with a stay at home mom but I have plenty of friends who grew up with “power couple” parents. If anything, the kids with working moms were better prepared for school and were more... polished? And I know plenty of fuck ups whose retarded moms stayed at home and/or whose parents ended up in nasty ass divorces with their “helpless” moms cleaning out their dads.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with nannies and having help. You grow to love them in a different way and they give you another perspective as you grow. It’s not like kids with nannies automatically assume that their parents don’t love them, and it’s rare for both parents to be completely absent all the time unless they never wanted kids in the first place. I feel like the argument against nannies and career women is usually made from bitter people who can’t afford them
I won’t settle for someone who doesn’t have a career. Not a job, a career. Maybe she’ll make the decision to stay at home for a few years but I don’t want to bankroll the seamless and reality show watching habits of an intellectually lazy partner for the rest of my life. I’ve seen firsthand the type of woman who doesn’t want to be challenged, what happens to the men who marry them, and how their kids turn out. Fuck that noise. This isn’t the 1950s
And if you think you can maintain your lifestyle in Manhattan once you have kids on a single income, think again, especially when your friends have paired off with those dreaded career girls
Fair enough, my friends that were the sons of power couples hated their parents for never showing up to sporting events and were desperate to hang out with my dad when we would go fishing or hiking . Just a perspective that has scarred me however like you mentioned it does come down to the parents and ultimately the ability to raise kids.
Red flag if you date let alone marry a woman who doesn't have her shit together. Big simp energy if you even consider that woman to be of high quality or capable of raising kids.
Times are different now. Kids raised in nyc don’t give a shit if you didn’t make it to their games, they give a shit if you don’t buy them the new iPhone every year or make them take the subway instead of ordering an Uber for them like their friends’ “power couple” parents.
Trust me, I’ve seen it firsthand with my useless excuse for a sister. Wasted my parents’ money on a shitty expensive degree she didn’t use before making them pay again for a shitty masters degree she didn’t use. They paid her UWS rent and vacation bills through her 20s because she made shit in her “career” (lol) until she tricked my BIL into marrying her. They had to move to the suburbs because she is both unemployable and has no desire to work, only post photos of her unruly spawn on Instagram. He has to wake up at 5am everyday to commute into the city and doesn’t get home until late. I’m sure she whines or cries or bitches when he does, because that is the kind of harpy she is. He makes decent money too, so I’m sure he daydreams about what life would’ve been like if he wasn’t living in hell. Fuuuuck that kind of life, I’d rather die alone
Interesting view. I dated a girl who’s parents were absent from most of her life because of their careers. It started off great but gradually she began to demonstrate her complete lack of empathy and family values. I think it can really fuck a person up if you don’t have that parental bond which you develop from actually having your parents present day-to-day and throughout your life. Her mum’s solution for most issues was to hand her money. Was quite shocking to see.
I think you are underestimating how difficult it is to properly raise kids
Can't agree more. Intellectually lazy person is never a worthy partner to have in life, let alone being a role model for the kids. All in all, "actively planning for quality time with family members" is so much more important than "staying at home 100% of time but with absent mind and dull soul".
Spot on. From my observations, nannies in the US seem to be lesser than a family member compared to non-US countries. Kept the same one well into the early teens, became a sort of aunt/older sister; learned about negotiation and playing people against one another (important life skills) through her in a way most mothers wouldn’t condone; so the stereotypes about lack of attachment to parents are bullshit. For kids, there's a certain amount of independence one acquires from not being mothered full time that works out very well into adulthood.
Amen
This is a fantastic post. Finding the right person to be with (or conversely, being prudent enough not to settle for the wrong person), has a massive ripple effect on almost every other aspect of your life (career, other relationships/friendships, etc.). I think I vastly underestimated this for a while as I dated some really terrible people. I got blindly lucky meeting my current S/O and bottom line is sometimes you don't know what you were missing until you experience it.
But definitely, if someone can't find that or something similar it's better to be single in a lot of cases.
Sounds like you had a doting mother who messed you up
Not even, I just don't understand why you would be attracted to someone who isn't passionate about trying to achieve a goal. I despise any man or woman who loathes around and doesn't attempt to make moves that betters their lives but instead will latch onto their partner because of the stability it brings.
I can't imagine trying to raise a daughter and having to tell her that her mom has never worked hard for something in her life or shown enough determination to go after it. It would reinforce outdated gender roles and worse yet be used as a crutch for failure.
its really about quality. My father was a mutual fund ceo and mom was a head of a broker office in another city when I was born. Our relationship is wonderful, really it's about the quality of the time and effort you put in, and the kids will know it. There are plenty failed relationships between stay home mom and kids.
Honestly, I would want my wife to be a housewife or someone who can devote considerable time to help and guide the children. from firsthand experience, I have seen that kids who are the most successful have atleast one or both the parents who can devote time to see what the children are doing. At the same time, the person should be well-educated and smart because if she's a bit dumb then I don't know how well she might be able to guide the children eg. if they come with a question, I don't want my wife to say "just google it".
same, my parents were never home growing up and it was just me and the nanny.. i get jealous seeing the relationships my friends have with their parents and how they can always confide in them and be vulnerable around them fuck i think i got issues
you are not alone. mine is worse.
Every case will be different. My dad wanted to make a solid career and his career was and still is all he cares about - he is now C-Level at a F50 firm. My mom on the other hand stopped working to raise me and my siblings (3 kids). Their marriage ended in a divorce as my mom had enough of it I believe, and my mom started working again when I was 8, I think she wanted to prove him that she could make a good career too. My dad had to move to another city and later to another country, I would see him 5-6 times a year, and later 2-3 times a year whilst I was living with my mom. Meanwhile my mom was working hard on her career, and wasn't there at home. While she wasn't just throwing money at us, we had to act as adults at the age of 8 and 11 (I have an other sibling that is 3 years older than me). I remember cooking dinner every other night as we would rotate between who's cooking, being at my grand parents on weekends. Missing sports training because no one could drive me. And trust me it sucks, it's not fun to miss your game with your region (I am based in Europe) football/rugby team. But it also makes you grow up way faster, when I got to uni I was the dedicated chef as I had been cooking for the last 10 years every evening, I was also much more mature when it came to going out and all that stuff. I realize that luckily my siblings and I put barriers in terms of what we did, but one could have easily taken drugs, gone out every evening. My dad would have not even noticed and its quite fucking sad to say that your dad has never seen you play at team sport you were good enough to be in the national team (EDIT - I think he saw me play on TV lol).
Enough of me bitching so here's my takeaways from my life. Yes having money is cool, but as a Kid you don't care about money, you want memories. Can I tell my kids I have played football/rugby with my dad, no. So life is about balance, not being all in on something, enjoy your kids, make the most of your career before having kids. And I don't think that there should be roles whereby one of the parent takes care of the kids and the other pays the bills, I think again its important to have 2 parents that can be fullfilled at work and at home with the kids. And you alwyas have a choice in life, you can always say no or you can always ask for more. My dad always asked for more, he moved to another continent and just made it hard for us to see him because he saw it as a career opportunity to come back in a better role. He is still stuck there 10 years later and is now realizing we've all grown up and are doing our lives pretty much without him because he never was there, we barely chatted about anything, and the only thing he appears to care about is our work although I feel that now he is getting old and would want to be able to spend more time with us, yet is is too late. So be wise about yourself before you think about your partner.
Thanks for sharing bro, it really illustrates some outcomes of having a nuclear family split like that. hope you’re good. My parents are the same and I wish someone was home growing up.
Yeah I'm good cheers bro, I just take a step back and understand everyone's motives now that I have grown up and it reinforces my beliefs around what kind of father I want to be.
How is your relationship with your mom? How did her career goals make you feel?
I grew up in a power couple household where both parents are doctors. My mother was a doctor and I grew up during her residency. My dad is slightly older and finished his when I was a baby. It was brutal I never saw her. I didn’t develop any sort of relationship with my parents until my teens and even then it wasn’t great. My mother worked full time in my teens with a 7 days on 7 days off schedule. She would be so exhausted from working she would spend her 7 days off sleeping or ignoring her kids. It’s great to have an extra income but money can’t buy a childhood. When your child is five they won’t understand that their parents missed their 1st grade play to save lives. They understand you missed their 1st grade play. I didn’t even get to participate in sports or any extracurriculars because no one could pick me up. Also another issue with these power couples is fertility. A lot of high achieving women have trouble getting pregnant after putting it off. Dealing with infertility is hard and very emotional and can come between the strongest of marriages. It’s something to think long and hard about. Maybe there’s a few couples who can make it work, but that requires a very special set of people who are willing to compromise and put the kids first.
empty egg carton meme is real
It seems your mother was an Emergency Medicine doctor. Do you think she got burnt out / is burnt out by the field?
What about your dad? What type of doctor is he and why didn't he fulfill that role of your mom while she was on that 7 day on schedule?
I am in my early 20s. So, I don't have an experienced opinion on this. I saw my dad work in a government job all his life. He would often get transferred to cities that were days apart from our house. Yes, we missed him as we were growing up. But being the eldest child, I learnt quite a lot about being a caretaker. My mom and I did our best to take care of our family. And I have an awesome mom by all means. I guess, more than the children, it's about the partner. I have seen her feel alone in her marriage years, while she still has been a spectacular mom. Sometimes I feel like I did lose something because of his absence, but then I look at mom and feel like my losses are nothing against hers. That is both empowering and saddening.
So, drawing on that conclusion - I don't care whether my wife has her own career or wants to stay home. That's her choice. I want her to be really happy with what she does. As far as she and I have a happy relationship, I believe we will be able to take care of our children, if we decide on having them. I am thinking about quality vs quantity of time spent with your family. If my wife and I are happy, we will be able to build a happy family. No matter how perfectly you plan things out, you will fuck up. Better to be happy while you did all of that.
Prof Scott Galloway had a very good take on this. He had an ongoing marriage and had just come out of the dot com bust, having lost a lot. His then marriage did not work out. He got remarried and other things happened. He has sold quite a few businesses, is doing great as a professor and has a voice. But he feels most in his element, when he is able to provide for his family.
So, my goals are to keep my partner as happy as she wants to be and to provide for my family. Her presence or absence at home is ancillary.
you are may ideal type of boyfriend/ husband when I will be ready/ want a relationship
That's sweet of you. A lot of guys think this way, so you won't have trouble finding one when you seek one. Cheers!
My parents owned multiple small businesses together. They are worth 6-7 million. Did well overall, and currently make 400k-500k through a combination of investments and their current businesses. Neither of my parents have worked more than 50 hours a week in their lives and had really flexible schedules. Some years mom worked harder than dad and vice versa. Have had a great relationship with them.
I have quite a few friends from my ivy league undergrad who's parents are the typical dual income power couple in professional careers (dual income lawyers, doctors, etc.). Household income ranging from 1 mill - 2 mill. Hate to say it, but these guys really resent their families and were sent to a boarding school at an early age/raised by nannies/never really saw their parents growing up. Lot of them have really messed up psychological issues (narcissism, depression, etc.) I guess they'll inherit several more million than me, but really at what cost?
I think the power couple worked in my parents scenario, but outside of small business/self employment context, it's very tough. High prestige white collar professions are very demanding.
There's a great book out there by Ken Fisher. One of his key tenets to great success is having a household where there is one parent working very hard to achieve something great, whereas the other parent is supporting and raising the family. Hoping to go down this route or my parents route. Don't think the power couple move is worth it for the marginally better lifestyle.
The assumption here appears to be that it’s one or the either - a loving housewife or a ruthless career woman. I know plenty of shitty housewives and plenty of warm execs, one of my higher ups being one of them (wow, yes, I respect women. Who woulda thunk)
The world is unlike that of our mothers and work-life balance, especially for working moms, is a thing nowadays. My aunt was on the BigLaw track until she had my cousins and has been of counsel at her firm, so still making good money while working standard hours. Her kids turned out better than any of us, no one was mailed off to boarding school, her daughter is a great human being and just got into a T10 law school
You don’t have to marry a robotic MD, just marry someone kind and smart and hard-working. I want a partner, not someone who is waiting around for someone to pick up where their dad left off. I also don’t want my kids being raised by a girl who couldn’t make the effort to develop her own mind and career, as it’s indicative of her having waited for someone to come and take care of her eventually. For the tenth time, fuuuuck that
If you think you can find a girl who is both smart and cool with staying at home, good luck. Most intelligent girls worth their salt won’t be cool with that intelligence going to waste and won’t be satisfied being just a housewife. “She can work on nonprofit boards” yup those boards are elitist as fuck and you bet they want a certain type of person (read: pedigreed) working on them. I’m also watching some of my buddies fight with their wives about schooling and how they should raise their kids and it is fucking exhausting hearing about their illogical arguments, the types of arguments that the “power couples” would never have
Maybe it’s because it’s time for me to settle down but I think about these things a lot and there are a lot of factors that won’t even cross your intern minds until you get some experience
I agree with you here. When I think of a power couple, I think of two adults fighting to be the best in their field, working consistently 60-70+ a week.
A set up like this is unsustainable.
the assumptions on housewifes according to this post is that theyre lazy "retarded" slobs. This assumption is being made by these same spineless scum that claim to "respect women"
fucking disgusting. raising kids is the most important full time job in the world and thats where good mothers who sacrifice a lot for their kids deserve the most respect. Fuck those who generalize stay at home moms badly
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I was the product of two working parents and intend to marry a career oriented woman. I feel that while I may have slightly missed out on some emotional growth having a parent around 24/7, what I learned in work ethic more than made up for it. I think it’s important to take years off early on, but am just naturally attracted to motivated and driven individuals
In my opinion, I prefer a wife that is about my children. Period. It's that simple. The mother of my children needs to care about her children more than her career, and this stipulates putting time into nurturing our children. Now, this doesn't exclude all women that work.
The ideal partner for me is a woman who works ~40 hours a week and supplements my income but prioritizes raising my children. Luckily, I have this.
On the flip side, I am under more pressure to "upgrade" our lifestyle than if I were with a career woman (?) because my income is what will improve our standing in life.
So you want a traditional set up where your wife is all about the kids while you bring home the bacon.
But you don't make enough so she has to work full time to help provide for the family and do the bulk of the childcare? What a lucky lady!
Cool troll post dude.
1.) My wife loves her job and doesn't want to quit. 2.) I help out and I'm present in my child's life while not at work, she is just more present than I am given our respective schedules.
Both of my parents worked very hard throughout my childhood but I never felt neglected because my dad (doctor) would make time to go to my soccer games on the weekends and my mother (teacher and then head of school) was always there trying to get us dinner and I could see how busy she was.
I think it's more about the quality of the time spent with your kids rather than the sheer quantity. When you are with your kids, are you truly present or are you dreading it and looking at your phone half the time? Are you plugged into how your kids are doing from a developmental perspective across many different aspects? physically, emotionally and spiritually? do they know you love them? do they feel safe and seen?
As a parent now of 3 young kids (4,2 and 1) and a pretty lucky setup of a wife that has a good schedule (3 long days per week and I work 4.5 days/week from home) -- we still need help right now to be able to have the energy to give our kids our best. Could we make it work without a nanny (yes), but I can tell you that it would be much much more stressful and my work (on WSO) would suffer.
I truly respect anyone that can stay home with the kids and make that their full time job. I couldn't do it because I think it's too lonely until the kids reach a certain age. I am, however, very much looking forward to the ages 5-10...my oldest daughter is already such an interesting personality (not easy) and I hope that with proper guidance she can become a kind, generous person.
So that was a long winded way of saying you can have 2 working parents but I think what is important is either 1) a flex schedule for 1 or 2 parents 2) one person dedicated to them or 3) parents that are truly present when they are getting that time.
Oh, and do family dinners :-)
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I'd say that power couples who get it right are the ones who get efficient at turning the relatively short amounts of time into quality time. Eventually, as kids grow up, the dream is that they, too, participate in turning this limited amount of time into something valuable.
I think that's what is often missing in these discussions. Sure, technically you spend time with your child when you are in the same room together. But that isn't enough. My mom (single parent) worked part-time and was home more than other parents. She wouldn't play with us or talk to us much. To me, having lunch and dinner without a conversation were normal. Talking to her sometimes was like talking to a wall.
These days I see the same when on public transport or at restaurants. Children trying to talk to their parents who keep their eyes glued to the phone. Of course, I don't know what happens at their home. But I'm guessing these parents believe (like my mom did) they are doing something good for the children by working less and spending more time at home. I believe you have to be in it with your heart and not just clock in the hours.
honestly this drives me crazy and it's really sad seeing how addicting phones/tablets are and how much screen time young kids get even when there are countless studies showing its definitely not good for them...
it's hard when you're exhausted to engage sometimes, but I think being in tune with your kids and giving them attention when you're there is a huge gift that pays dividends later (or so I hope!)
Children of first generation immigrants at exeter/andover were pretty unhappy about their childhoods. It was usually both parents working crazy hours to afford spending 70k a year to send their kids there.
OMG, P...just you wait, Mr. Family Dinner...you had them close together ...you're going to need another driver pretty soon...ballet at 4:30...t-ball at 5....karate at 6...all getting out within 30 minutes of each other...in different towns...LOL! Joking around, it will all work out - but it will get more complicated, like, in the fall. She'll grow out of it - take lots of video for her Sweet 16 montage.
hahahaha - but at least I won't be changing diapers anymore!
Power couples could only work if you exhibit true power. Like watching over your kid during the day even if you need to do it while you work for at least 6 hours. Having the schedule to put them to bed yourself, drop them off and pick them up from their activities/school.
If you are a "power couple" because you work a lot and very hard, which prevents you from being a family couple, then it isn't real power. I would not want to know that my wife and me are both too busy to look after our kids and take personal interest in it because we have to commit too many hours collectively to our careers. That sort of in-between power isn't worth it in my opinion.
Both my parents are PhD; my dad is a CEO of a small-sized company and I rarely got to see him throughout the childhood. He didn't even come home late - normally by 6-7PM, so I had roughly 1 hour every day to see him during dinner. After dinner, he normally stayed in his room (he also slept early, like 9-10PM and woke up at 4-5AM) and I didn't see him again until the dinner of next day. He usually spent the whole weekend playing golf, biking, training at the gym etc. As a result, we never talked much as I was growing up. I'm in my mid 20s now and still find it hard to talk to him, as though he is a stranger. That said, he was the bread winner of the family, and without him, I wouldn't be able to afford expensive tuition fees.
Fortunately, my mom works as a professor and she lectures roughly 3x a week. She also declined the offer to become a dean (which would come with greater responsibilities). She was at home almost all the time, and paid close attention to me and my sister. I still remember the days where she accompanied me to tuition centers (I was in the math olympiad team of middle school so I had 6-9 extra evening classes every week), waited until I finished the class then rode me home. Without her care I think both I and my sister would have become average students.
In my view, it is okay for one of the parents to be a bread winner of the family, but the other (it doesn't matter if mom or dad) must be there to support the growth of the children. My fiancee is luckily just like my mom; she wants a decent career for herself (she works in tech/designing) but is not overly ambitious, and understands the necessity to spend time with our future children. As for me, I aspire to work in IB for a few years as an associate before taking a large pay cut to work in some 40-50h cushy job and be there to support my kids.
Is it possible to save enough money before the age of 40 to live off of? Thinking $5mm with 5% returns nets pre-tax $250k/yr. @ a 5% return. Given freedom of time, wouldn’t it be safe to assume you can scrape together another $50-100k in various one-off roles throughout the year? Wondering what other people’s thoughts are...
Inflation is the issue. Tuition rises 4 percent a year for example.
Real Estate was one way to hedge against inflation, though real estate as an asset class will take a huge hit in the post COVID world.
I listened to Greg Fitzsimmons' podcast (Dave Konecher epsiode) the other day and he made a good point that I want to share. Basically, he said think about your life in reverse, then go from there; meaning, he was has younger aged kids (single digits, son and daughter) and he was thinking about how he wanted to give a good speech at his daughters wedding and have good stories at his son's bachelor party.
Basically, he didn't say this but this is what he means, there's different ways to parent, but you want to make sure you're there for the important parts (quality vs quantity as said above). Theres thinks you'll want to see that your kids wouldn't remember, and vise versa. For example, your kid woudn't remember if you where there for their first steps, but you will.
Ill give you an example. My brother's FIL was a partner at PWC, worked a lot, but didnt' really have quality time with his kids (has 3 kids). Didn't go to his sons bachelor party, didn't go to my brother's bachelor party, gave a speech at his wedding that was basically his daughter's resume. It all depends who you want to be.
On being a "power couple",, being a parent is a job, maybe not the hardest job (S/O Oprah), but a difficult job. If you marry someone who takes care of your kids but doesn't want to work, how much will they work for your kids?
Edit: guess not working and not wanting to work are slightly different things but I still disagree :)
This guy sounds like an out-of-touch piece of shit.
Yea he sucks, don't even get me started bro.
What some of you guys call "power couples" I just call "needing two incomes to survive." That's the reality for the bottom 90% in today's society in any HCOL/VHCOL city. Realize most of this forum is college students fantasizing about making $1mm and having a SAH trophy wife, but wow when reality hits about how expensive it is to do simple things like * Buy and own a house * Send a kid to school * Health insurance and medical care * Retirement savings
... having a second working parent is not optional.
I seriously want to know the age of everyone in this thread who’s going on about a stay at home wife
We don’t live in our parents’ times. The houses that our parents bought for $500k now cost $2 mil. Lunch used to cost $3 and now costs $12. The stakes are higher and inflation is only going to bump it up even more. You’re not going to get by on $200k, maybe not even $400k, anymore, at least not in a HCOL area. Just the mortgage, tax, and HOA alone on a decent place big enough for a family will be more than double your take home as an analyst. And that’s just the cost for a roof over your heads
And don’t give me shit about standards of living because if you’re on this site, chances are that you aren’t interested in enrobing your kids in Walmart and feeding them from the Costco food court
I think there's some middle ground tho, between $2MM/$500K p.a. and Walmart/Costco (which honestly many a well-to-do family love). Even in fancy areas with good schools, there are plenty options. In Manhattan and Palo Alto, maybe no, but suburbs...yeah. Women quite often stay at home for just a period of time, not forever. Even my fanciest stay-at-home-momish friends, many work at least part time. Maybe for husband's business, some have gone from corporate to interior design (and are talented and busy!). They wing it and they are happy. Some are literally full time as unpaid volunteers! God forbid if you're PTO Prezzie at a private school, expect to work until 1am frequently (not exaggerating). It really runs the gamut and it's amazing what you can make work. The picture changes a lot with each change of life. I think the point is - you figure it out.
Happy Wife, Happy Life should be the Golden Rule after Do Unto Others... If Mama Ain't Happy, Ain't Nobody Happy. Truth.
Dude, you had me until this part. Costco foodcourt is fucking bomb. Chicken Bakes are delicious, their pizzas are super consistent, and the hotdog/soda combo has been $1.50 for like 40 years - if I could reliably use it to hedge inflation, I totally would.
Great points, prices are going up in certain sectors (housing, education, healthcare) that are outpacing increases in wages.
Finance is by nature a very volatile profession and for most of us are going to get laid off at some point and we may never be able to get back to that level again. Seats at the higher levels have a lot of vol in income and don't just grow on trees. This is just another reason why a 2nd income is so important (Tip- Marry a nurse or PA, flexible schedule, make pretty good money and those jobs are always in demand). Just b/c you are making 1MM a year today does not mean its going to happen forever.
With the rise of technology and remote work I think you are going to see way more people who would have stayed at home in the past now working part time or even full time. Personally I think its healthy for both parents to work as it adult interaction is healthy and gives you a break from being in "kid mode" all the time. It also gives the kids a good example that both of you "Need" to work to provide them with a certain lifestyle.