Non-Target in PE
Can a non-target really make it to PE?
When I mean non-target, I mean: immigrant that moved here at 19, worked night shift 7/11 and construction to pay for community college so he can transfer to a shitty ABSOLUTE MEGA NON TARGET on a full ride.
Literally everything about me is unconventional — my personality to my background and all inbetween.
I ended up at a mid-tier BB in a coverage group, I can model, I do all practice model tests easily without struggle (building from scratch always). I know Paper LBOs, I know the industry, but does all of this really matter?
Kids from Princeton in my group got 8-10 HH emails so far, I got 1.
Even if I got the emails, will they even interview me considering my education and who I am?
Jesus, I really believe in meritocracy and I will grind like no one, but does that matter if I do not even get a chance?
I guess bottom line is, can I make it to PE? Ideally UMM.
Thanks all!
Yes? Bank is more important than school tbh. You might not get MF looks but plenty of MMs will
Yes definitely. Maybe not UMM if your group doesn't frequently place there, but definitely MM or LMM.
School will have some impact but not all that much given you ended up at a BB... and really there are plenty of people who will respect the hustle. I would just be careful if you're saying your personality is also super unconventional - that is not something you want people to walk away from an interview thinking. Make sure you are presenting yourself as professionally as possible.
You can absolutely get into PE if you put in the work. You already found a solid bb ib job, going into pe would be a logical next step. Cast a wide net, keep your mind open to different types of firms and geographies, you can do this. Your recruiting process may take several months to even over a year, but stay determined and you can get to where you want to be.
Agree with comment above - stay persistent and you'll come across plenty of opportunities. Once you get an interview, it's all about your own ability to demonstrate why you're the ideal candidate. I came from an under-represented school as well. First gen, didn't graduate until I was 24, but got a job at a BB and then PE afterwards, but it took over 15 final rounds and who knows how many interviews.
I doubt the school matters as much as you think, it didn't really come up as a discussion topic in any of my interview rounds
That’s key to landing interviews - start at a bb. I went to a t20 school and worked at a mm and one of my friends from my hs class went to a nontarget but ended up at a bb, and he had many more interviews and hh inbounds than I did, and found a great job too.
The difference is huge depending on which bank you’re in. It’s like being at a bb opens up a ton more doors for buyside interviews it’s wild.
You should tell your story to MFs , and let them put your on a pedestal. I can see the LinekdIn Post from BX now, “he interviewed in a suit 6 sizes to big, but he’s underpaid and overworked now” pans to a diversity event “build with Blackstone… you smile and wave”
If you get your story right, it’s like fishing with dynamite. Speaking from 1st hand experience.
All these MF candidates look exactly the same. Grew up in Chevy Chase/Scarsdale, parents are bankers/surgeons/lawyers, went to prep school, went to top school, and then to BB banking. You’re in the same spot as those kids but started in a straight jacket at the bottom of a lake with a bag or rocks block tied around your waist.
From my seat now, it’s so hard to find good hungry talent, even from these top pedigreed backgrounds. There’s always a real chance you end up with a kid or two who’s a complete bust and shows up on the job and is not the personable cyborg you generally look for when hiring PE associates. The requirements are (1) 10/10 competence + (2) 10/10 hunger/drive.
Given the pedigree/training/interview/case study etc, engine #1 is always VERY solid. In banking there’s a lot of kids with no common sense/commercial instinct that graduated from Yale/MIT with a 3.9 GPA. None of those kids get past the goalie in MF recruiting. This is less of an issue.
Engine 2 is typically where (if at all) you have a malfunction. These kids show up on the job and for whatever reason a few of them try to ‘work smarter not harder’ or at some point have a ‘yeah, I’m not doing that’ attitude — but generally are a whiff in the drive dept and are just trying to get by to the next wrung on the 2+2+2 ladder.
Typically when you come across a candidate with your background, you’re almost guaranteed for engine bay 2 to hold up. You’ve likely been running through walls other people through walls conventional wisdom suggested were immovable, and will likely continue to do so.
So then it’s just a matter of proving out that you’re super smart, despite your UG/SAT whatever else — this is no easy feat and you’ll have to deliver head and shoulders above the rest.
A combination of being able to tell your story and being an absolute assassin on interview prep/talking through your deals critically/mental math/brain teasers/verbal case studies/actual case studies will have you picking between multiple MF PE offers. Guaranteed.
This is a great post and I totally agree with it. I actively grill candidates for grit during the interview and prefer folks who have demonstrated the kind of hustle OP has had to go through.
Exact same situation as OP, moved to US alone at 17, came here with nothing, worked 2 shitty jobs entire college just to pay for my extremely non-target school and prolonger my stay in the states. I have ended up at MM IB doing M&A. Really want to get to buyside and stay there long-term, so i have prepped hard for PE recruiting, feel comfortable building Full LBO 3 statement model, walking through my deals (LMM PE internship experience), know how to sell my self and my unique story during interviews. Occasionally, I get HH emails for MM funds (which I am interested in), but no interviews. I have started cold-emailing some of the MM funds but no response so far. Any advice/strategy moving forward, particularly interested in MM, open to any city?
The one thing I didn’t hit on above is that almost everyone wants to hire the diamond in the rough candidates. But they’re incredibly time consuming to sift through — the vast vast majority are complete wastes of time. Just not feasible to spend that much time on 1 candidate who may progress and may convert and may accept. Which is why everyone defers to the tried and tested model.
Why try to find a needle in a haystack when you can just have a HH give you a crate full of needles to pick from. From the HH perspective, why deliver a divergent candidate that might bomb his interview and make you look stupid? A pedigreed candidate may also bomb his interview, but no one could have seen that coming, not on the HH, it’s just statistics.
Point being, you will need to get MF interviews yourself. By all means necessary. I’d come up with a really well thought out investment theme, keep it to 3-5 pages, and blast it out to MF investment teams in that sector. 4-8 sectors per MF, that’s 4-8 inbounds across 8 MFs, that’s 30-60 inbounds. Find other vectors of attack and continue to build up that denominator.
Eventually, one will convert than you follow up with everyone you’ve reached out to in the past very directly: I have an interviewing coming up for KKR PE. Everything I’ve learned about CD&R makes me believe that’s the best place for me. I heard you’re actively recruiting, how can I get included in the process?
You can’t really BS your way into the FOMO factor bc all the HH will generally know if someone is interviewing at a MF since a few HH cover 3-5 MFs each.
I’ve frequently heard that someone had already passed on me, and when I came by someone else’s desk the 2nd or 3rd time from a different channel, they reconsidered and included me.
I would be interested if you think my background (similar, but not exact, to your comment above) has a shot. Do you have a throwaway email that I can send a resume to?
When you say Chevy Chase do you mean Chevy Chase, Maryland?
Wow very impressed by your background and persistence. Tbh, what got you where you are today is more than some fancy degrees. Maybe MF or UMM funds care more about where you went to school, if you don’t mind working in LMM, you will get a job pretty easily cuz your background resonates a lot with what LMM represents - the grind and the unconventional.
I went to a non-target full of people with a similar background like yourself (myself included) and I know several people who have landed jobs at top MF/UMM PE funds and even top tier HFs. It is certainly possible if you’re willing to gun for it. The above poster made a great recommendation on creating investment thesis’s that you should consider trying. The only thing I’d add to what was said is I think you should aim for quality > quantity. You’re much better off creating 1-2 great investment write-ups than creating a bunch of mediocre ones.
Key is with headhunters to articulate your story around your success with your work experiences and not emphasize that you're not from a target school. If you make it appear like you're self-conscious about your school by even mentioning something relatively benign like "even though I went to xyz school I got to this role etc" you'll set a tone which won't work in your favor. Frame it more that you're killing it at your job rn and you're excited to explore PE roles and oh also I went to xyz school. If you show even a modicum of self-consciousness about your education, they'll pick up on it and it'll work against you. You're in the same play pit as your competing candidates so act like you have all the business in the world being there. Worked for me and I'll say it's crucial to be pristine with the HHs as they set up your background for the PE professionals to evaluate, often times writing a blurb about you in a spreadsheet along with other candidates. Don't give them a reason to doubt you because of your education.
Thanks so much! What about talking about your group if you aren't in a top tier group?
Say your group and experience with confidence and gravitas. Same thing as i said above.
Fully agreed, great advice
Be confident in yourself and your abilities. I went to a nontarget school, networked my a** off to get into IB, recently received a PE offer. You can do it too don’t let your school weigh down your self confidence. You’re alr at a BB, you’re just as good as the guys from other schools in your same group
I would go on LinkedIn and filter for big non-target schools in US and those from Canada - you'll see that it is doable and that these kids are probably more like you than the more typical prep school top-tier BB kids that you're comparing yourself against
You will probably come to the conclusion that getting to UMM+ PE will look as, if not more, insurmountable than the hoops you've jumped through in your prior life experiences. That's simply the way the pyramid works
How do you filter like that?
Why wouldn’t you be able to get into PE if you already got into a bb from your school?
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