Starting to think about switching careers?
Hey Monks,
Any one getting worried about this market? I am starting to second guess being on the finance side of CRE. This high interest environment is killing me. Additionally, I can't stand being on commission only. Am I crazy for wanting to jump ship to the legal side of this business? I have always enjoyed reading and negotiating terms of contracts. Plus I am young enough to get JD or MBA or both and switch things up to something a bit more stable. Also starting a family soon so I can't stand the thought of being commission only, waking up Jan 1 not knowing how much I am going to make. Am I just freaking out for no reason? lol. I am sure there are other people in this market who are thinking the same way. Just needed to come on here and word vomit some thoughts.
Hey there,
I totally get where you're coming from. The market can be a rollercoaster, and it's natural to want a bit more stability, especially when you're thinking about starting a family.
Switching to the legal side could be a good move, especially if you enjoy the nitty-gritty of contracts. A JD could definitely help you there. But remember, law has its own challenges and it's not always as stable as it seems.
An MBA could also be a good option, especially if you're looking to broaden your skill set and keep your options open. It could give you a solid foundation in business and management, which could open up new opportunities for you.
But before you make any decisions, I'd recommend doing some serious soul-searching. What do you really want out of your career? What are your long-term goals? And most importantly, what will make you happy?
Remember, it's your life. You're the captain of your ship. So make sure whatever decision you make is the right one for you.
And hey, don't worry about the word vomit. Sometimes, it's good to get it all out. That's what I'm here for!
Sources: Banking to Law?, Recent grad, super lost. Can anyone give advice/help me choose between an MBA, JD, or MA?, Career switch from journalism to finance...how to go about?, Finance vs. Law
Being on commission is for sure not for everyone so you're not alone. However, running to get a law degree or business degree isn't an immediate solution for that. Have you explored other careers in the industry before embarking on the whole journey that grad school is?
Adding to this, I have seen quite a few people leave CRE (not by choice) to completely switch industries. A multifamily broker I know switched to selling solar panels to companies. He had no background in it and is now making $200K+.
I feel you man – 100% commission is very tough. Maybe look to be on a debt relations team for an institution?
Guess everyone is different. Every time I'm working with our counsels to negotiate contract docs, I always say to myself I'm so grateful that I chose not to go to law school. It really seems like one of the most miserable parts of the business to me to be combing through contracts all day and being the one responsible for not missing anything in the language. Having said that, they do make great money whether times are good or bad.
My advice would be to consider what you actually want to do with your career and don't be short sighted. The market will likely be back by time you'd get out of law school anyways. The reality of our business is things are usually never as bad or as good as they seem to be when times are rough or euphoric. I bet you I could find a few CRE attorneys right now that jumped ship to law school in 2009 while their peers stuck around and made a killing. Doesn't mean you should NOT go to law school, but if you do it, it should be because you want to be a lawyer and not because you're scared of today's market.
Legal is commissions too. Just called a different name. Any slowdown felt by brokers is 1:1 felt by counsel. However, there is the added benefit of working on loan workouts/loan mods which brokers wouldn't see commission on - so I guess it's not totally 1:1. Just saying, not a solution for a slow market.
Plus by the time you get your JD and pass the bar the market will be recovered, if it's not we're all screwed. But it will be. CLOs aren't going to pretend and extend beyond 5-6 years of the initial term. Really only get one shot, max two shots, at extend and pretend.
Not sure I agree. Our counsels are still pretty busy right now compared to brokers. There are many processes that counsels deal with than just brokered transactions. To name a few we have lease mods, pref equity / rescue capital transactions (many of which happen off market), capital call processes (especially from complicated JV's), rezonings, etc. Not to mention that they get variety - for instance, if you work office investment sales, your job is probably dead right now but the counsel still gets to work on office leases and subleases which are still happening.
Yeah, all fair points. The 1:1 was a little strong so I backed off it, my broader point is that legal work is also significantly (but not entirely) dependent on transaction volume.
To OP: I mean being an asset manager at a lifeco is fairly steady work. No matter the ups and downs of the market, you have long-term debt and an allocation requirement so the money is out and the assets need managing. But I wouldn't advise that route. I'd just stick it out, there are others in your position and when the market turns those that stuck it out will be in a better position for it.
I mentioned in another post, I think a lot of CRE professionals will leave the profession this round. However, compared to 2008, there are more mash ups sectors/industries that would utilize the real estate skillset, so the net effect for some will be positive and early mover advantages. This will lead to more opportunities to grow businesses, not just asset or project or transaction/deal specific.
Our Counsel are getting killed, we had someone leave to go to big firm on the IPO M&A side and it's a great avenue into true finance. However due to the current market we didn't back fill. So our lawyers are now over worked, but this is typical across the law practice. I saw it first hand my fathers 75 and still working in big firm cause he just can't make himself retire.
Production side I know plenty that stick around as well, but many go off into retirement on the earlier side.
I mean the market has it's cycles....It won't last for ever, it'll become a new trend or turn around once volatility allows everything to stabilize and pencil again. Till then it's rough for everyone. I know I've heard people that even worked at Fannie in 08 or Lehman and they said they have never seen or felt it like this.
Survive to 25 is our motto.
Not trying to be a dick but it’s insane to me you’re worried about starting a family soon but considering law school + bar + big law (assuming big law because you seem like you want to make money). You will not have any free time. And your class will be going out regularly on comped dinners and drinks. That doesn’t even consider potential debt. Don’t think law is a bad route but I wouldn’t want to start a family in law school.
If I was you I’d look at commercial banking, or asset management.
OP here. You're not being a dick, so no worries there. Id prob wait till L3 or graduate till I actually start a family. Already talked with the Mrs about long hours. We both work 60+ hours a week any way. She understands the long hours that may await.
Market will come back, but not to its former glory. We had everyone and their mother buying with positive leverage. Not sure we will ever see that again. In the 70s and 80s it was very common to buy deals that didn't real pencil. RE was a way to tax harvest and defer gains for wealthy people from traditional corporations.
But GTFO of brokerage
Out of curiosity, why are you anti brokerage?
Being on commission only in 2024 is probably not the most lucrative plan
Before going to the principal side, i worked at an appraisal firm.
One of the senior directors there had also briefly worked on the acquisitions side before. Unfortunately this was circa the financial crisis, and ~1-2 years into joining, the GFC happened and his fund was basically liquidated. He'd just started a family at that point and was likely in a similar spot of figuring out what to do to earn a reliable income, so he went back into appraisal after that. Given every investor and bank was scrambling to value their positions, activity was extremely healthy so the fee revenue was steady.
He's been doing it ever since, and as a senior person (hes now in his late 30's / early 40's or so) with an MAI, comp is in the $300-400k range (from what I've been told) and he seems to have a great WLB.
Probably not the sexiest 'jump' in the RE industry for most people here, but it seemed to work out for him.
How long does it usually take to make 200k+ as an appraiser? 5-10 years?
It def depends on the structure of your shop (for instance, the cushmans of the world tend to dedicate different folks for front and back end reports because they have the manpower whereas smaller shops are more cradle to grave), the "split" that you're able to negotiate, and how quickly you're able to get through of your trainee licenses / certificates etc.
But when i was there (back in 2016), a person a few years out of college was making 100-150k. (~2nd tier city)
Your company is paid an engagement fee on each job, so it becomes a function of repetitions and time. Once you're familiar with the job, you can easily crank out reports and volunteer to take on as many assignments as possible. So you can end up making a good chunk of change relatively early on if you're willing to crank out hours (provided there are plenty of jobs to go around).
On that person's trajectory, I have to imagine they were already clearing ~200k before year 5, especially given they sped through their licenses too.
I can't imagine interacting with real estate attorneys, seeing the life they lead, and then thinking "I want to do that!"
I genuinely feel bad for ours every time they send me a redline at 1am that I wasn't going to read until after lunch the next day anyhow.
Agree. At least they get paid well. And honestly working with the really good ones is a lot of fun. Some really smart and cool people are partners, one guy(haven't met in person) is basically Harvey Specter but probably less money, and he is turning comments and taking calls on vacation.
I went out with our associate counsel to the westvillage for drinks, at like 8pm I stayed out and he had to go back to the office.
Est alias ab est ea. Non ut eum provident dolore. Nisi qui labore voluptatem ullam qui qui debitis.
Minus eligendi qui qui occaecati ut vitae provident. Ullam consectetur natus fuga iure id facilis. Sit ut quibusdam iure blanditiis placeat incidunt.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Illum et corrupti optio quis. Est et tempora velit atque corrupti corrupti deleniti. Expedita est voluptatem voluptas a cum. Illo animi et voluptatem. Deleniti distinctio esse non et beatae dolores ipsa. Eos hic reiciendis quasi est dolorum omnis blanditiis. Molestiae omnis quos veniam.
Culpa qui et aspernatur minima in. Nostrum ab vero et dignissimos ut accusantium. Aspernatur porro ut autem odio omnis consequatur. Omnis et assumenda eaque.