Ok, so I am a current senior in high school and I am in a predicament. I want to go into IB before getting my mba and then AM or Consulting, I have great academic stats (4.6 GPA, 33 ACT) and decent EC (Varsity , marching band, eagle scout) and have been accepted to Duke, Vanderbilt, U of Michigan, U of Penn, and University of Utah. The problem is I don't have enough money from parents or myself to pay for these out of state or private schools.
My parents make enough to not get need based help nor do I stand out at these schools despite being accepted. However,, I am a resident of Utah and received a full tuition scholarship to go to University of Utah. So, do I take out 150k in debt to go to an elite school or take this less debt and go to this non target school. I like the atmosphere and campus of U and U, but want to make sure I can reach my career goals. Thoughts?
The cheapest one is Penn St. at 115k over 4 years and its only a semi target
Upenn and penn st are different universities, you know that right?
fucking google it
150K for top school.
Just make sure to work your ass off. If you put up a mortgage size debt load, you better get the most out of every single interaction and opportunity.
If you're not going to treat it like a full time job and a half, then go to local school with no debt. You can get a decent job in from most non-targets, but your hopes of high finance are much less likely.
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If he goes to Utah he can eventually work in trade management like you at GS Salt Lake City with the other queers like Robert Duval.
I would go to Utah. Go kill it there and you'll be fine. I'm sure some Utes make it to IB. I definitely don't think it's worth $100k more to go to a semi target. If you're Mormon, that's just another reason you can bring up in interviews.
Don't listen to these idiots. Boutique is totally achievable, and you might even be able to get a BB role. Not worth more than 100k to increase your odds at IB, and if you do well at Utah and go to work for a decent firm or 2, you can go get a top 10-15 MBA.
Take the debt and go to (in debatable rough order) UPenn (not Penn State), Duke, UMichigan, Vandy.
Agree. Go to U Penn. If you are in top 15-20% of graduating class you can score a BB job pretty easily. From University of Utah you probably have to be top 1-2%.
Why not do 2 years at U of U then try to transfer to a better school if needed? One way to hedge your bets.
You literally cannot get any financial help from these schools?
IMO, go to UPenn. Work part time or something to help lower your loan costs. Assuming you get a solid SA gig for a couple years, you will have summer earnings to help offset some costs.
$150K can be repaid within 3-4 years (or earlier) if you budget and get a FO role. After that your trajectory will be set. Shit, an IB analyst will make nearly double what a MO analyst will make.
Or you can double up on your classes and do things in 3 years to shave some costs off.
Honestly dude, I don't think you've really juiced the orange. When I went to UG, I made an apt with the financial aid officer and was pretty blunt about what I wanted. Guy gave me another $10k per year off tuition. Have you explored every scholarship? Have you spoken to all the financial aid offices, told them where else you have been accepted and asked for all the aid possible?
You've gotten into a number of top schools dude, don't sell yourself short.
Be polite and respectful, but straight forward. Your parents make just to deny aid, but not enough to help. You want to go there, but have a full ride back home and offers from other schools (you can bluff some). You need help and want to go to XYZ school. Anything they can offer would help.
I am fairly sure some, if not all, of the schools will carve off some aid for you. The lower you can get the debt costs down to, the better.
Be frugal in school, work in the computer lab, do a paid summer internship, use that money to offset costs, and you'll graduate with less than $150K. Get a high paying job from the top brand school and you'll repay that debt in no time.
"Top 5% of Finance Majors". Not sure the makeup of the school but that is likely less than the top 2% of total undergraduates. This is why UPenn is the better move. Top 25% (out of entire undergraduate class, not just Wharton/finance) and you will have your pick of $90K+ jobs.
This thread gave me cancer. If you go to a target, just major in some stupid shit like History so you get a high GPA. Attend OCR and you'll be guaranteed a super day at Goldman Sachs or J.P. Morgan or some bulge bank. Just finish the interview without stuttering and you'll be an investment banker. Keep in mind you can get $300k a year in just 3-4 years out of college as an Associate.
I'm going to post twice because this is still on the front page and this bothers me viscerally. Take it from a mid-career professional who DID NOT go to an undergraduate target school because I took the scholarship.
Grassmuffin, let me tell you about something called a resume. Currently your resume is blank - what do I mean by that? I mean by the time you're my age in your 30's, you won't have anything from high school or your high school jobs on your resume anymore. What will persist, you ask, for your entire life? The brand name of your undergraduate school. Tying yourself to UPenn (and Michigan, Duke) will not only benefit you for undergraduate OCR but also for the rest of your life. It is the checkiest of check boxes. Lifelong alumni network around the world. Once you graduate, assuming you will go onto the exact same career, you would easily spend $150k to get that brand name - but you can't. I would. Perhaps not everyone would, but that's my two cents.
You'd be stupid not to go to Penn. BB's hand out jobs there. You'll create a ridiculous network and it'll be worth the 150k. Don't think twice.
Are you a highly recruited athlete? How in the world have you gotten acceptances from multiple top schools in September when early decision deadlines haven't even passed? Am I missing something here?
I'll skip everyone's comment and give you mine straight. Forget all the other schools - if you got into U-penn go there. End of the story.
I'll never get told off for hiring an ivy league kid if he ends up being a fuck up - I'll have a lot of explaining to do if that kid went to non-Ivy or not to Oxbridge/LSE/Imperial in the UK.
You can always ask for extra cash and try to play them when you reach out to them. IB SA make 15-20k over the summer, do two internships and you just paid for a year of school + guaranteed employability (unless you fuck up)
Without having insight into U of U specifically I would say that some non-targets (e.g. top state schools) can routinely place their best students on the street . There are only a few spots, but there is also less competition (there wouldn't be 30 students at UoU that 'deserved' a top BB).
At EOD I'd say Upenn and Duke IF THE FINANCIALS WONT AFFECT YOUR PERFORMANCE. This is a big caveat. You don't want to go to one of these places, spend your time working/ not focusing completely on school. You want the option that will allow you to really crush it academically, extracurricular, etc. Under no circumstances should you consider taking on any substantial amount of debt for UMich, Vandy, or any of the others. Once you fall out of the 'elite' it just doesn't matter that much.
More generally, I get the feeling people are statistically innumerate when it comes to schools. They see a school name and assume the person is the average school product and will have the average opportunities. At any good state school you will have an elite core of students that will get the opps at top grad schools, wall street (to a lesser extent), and tech jobs (to a greater extent).
The counter to that is that the social cache often matters more than achievement or talent, as you can see by all the people above who have huge chips on their shoulders b/c of undergrad even after having (presumably) successful careers
Good luck man.
Full disclosure: Don't know much about UofU. But, all else equal, and looking from a high level, take the elite school. U Penn. Push for scholarship, work during the year, SA comp, you'll be OK. Just don't screw around.
Some here are advocating the same bullshit point: You can get banking out of a lower tier program, just look at guy X and girl Z! Yeah, they're examples. But they're usually EXCEPTIONS, not the rule. Going to target = so much easier. Your chances are exponentially higher. AND if you do 2 years IB and 2 years PE, and budget, you won't have debt for long.
Here is a question. If you want IB, and go to UofU, and don't get a solid BB or an EB, will you regret not going to U Penn? If the answer is yes, go to U Penn.
"In 1999, economists Alan Krueger and Stacy Berg Dale published a widely read study that compared the earnings of graduates of elite colleges with those of “moderately selective” schools. The latter group was composed of people who had been admitted to an elite college but chose to attend another school.
The economists found that the earnings of the two groups 20 years after graduation differed little or not at all. A larger follow-up study, released in 2011 and covering 19,000 college graduates, reached a similar conclusion: whether you went to Penn or Penn State, Williams College or Miami University of Ohio, job outcomes were unaffected in terms of earnings."
WSO isn't letting me post a link, so Google 'Time it doesn't matter where you go to college'
I honestly believe some people are studs no matter where they start off, they will rise. Some people can be born into Ivy and they will / or maybe will not rise. Completing a rigorous program can burn some people out and get others going. The race is long and in the end it is only with yourself. I asked 2 executives I knew about the debt value on education. I asked them to review my resume and tell me if the debt was worth it. One said ignore the debt and go to the best program you can and the other said avoid the debt and go to the best program you can without taking on a huge amount of debt. So many people have to make this choice. In the end the question is, "Do you think you need the pedigree to succeed!" It is truly an individual question. I hate debt and the lingering payments. My last boss finished Ross with a high debt load. He was an engineer and he used to complain about the debt of his MBA. Now he makes great money in Real Estate, how can we know if he would have accomplished the same things without the degree. He already had a masters in Engineering. I could surmise he would have been a high achiever without the Ross MBA. I could surmise that an MBA from Villanova or Rutgers could have given him the same education without the connections or cost and some of these regional programs have great value and he already had a stem background with experience. He designed the steering column in my car. So I will be honest and say I passed on a Semi Target and chose a program that had the highest value for the cost. After my company pays its portion and the GI Bill it is free. Some Vets qualify for Yellow Ribbon and can possibly pay the entire bill for a Target/Semi Target. If I didn't have a wife and child I would have taken the debt. That's honest. I have a friend who went to a Regional and his career has amazed me. Now he also has to worry a Tuck/Duke/UVA/SOM Alumni taking his spot, but when I consider how much he has made($) thus far I choke. He has hired allot of M7 Grads though, he is honest about that. It's expected at his company. He can hire an occasional person from a non target, but I am sure they are crazy high performers.