Q&A: About to graduate from HBS - Ask Me Anything
About one year ago, I did this Q&A about finishing my first year at HBS. Two years ago, I did this Q&A about being accepted and attending HBS. Seems only appropriate that I close this series out with Part 3... I will be busy with graduation-related activities (we just finished this thing today called "Class Day" and the actual commencement ceremony is tomorrow May 24), but I will do my best to respond to questions. Happy to answer any and all questions (even questions that are already covered in previous Q&As), but before you ask about how far I can punt a football, please know that my answer is still unchanged - "I never punt. Always go for it on 4th down" * *on Madden, that is
How challenging one finds the coursework really depends on your previous background. For the WSO crowd, you will be fine in the finance courses, but some people who have never learned finance struggle. First-year finance (Fall and Spring semester) is often considered the most challenging class for most students without a finance background.
Clubs are an essential part of the HBS experience. They provide an opportunity to meet other people in different sections (the social scene at HBS revolves around the section you are affiliated with) as well as work on leadership skills (e.g. holding a leadership position in a student club). They are also a great way to network with professionals who are working in an industry you are interested in targeting (e.g. many students who are interested in getting into hedge funds join the HBS Investment Club)
Students are very helpful and supportive. There are always going to be a few unnecessarily cutthroat bad actors in each section, but the vast majority (98%) of people are willing to help people who are struggling with the material. I saw this often when people with finance experience (IBD, PE, etc.) volunteered to tutor or hold study sessions for students less comfortable with finance.
In your one year post, you said you were going to be doing tech focused VC. Are you going to be doing FT with the same firm/same space?
It seems like you had to really grind to secure that internship opportunity. This seems in line with what I know about sell-side to buy-side transitions via business school. Do you think that the opportunities that you were up for were a result of throwing around the HBS name when you were networking? I'd really like to get a sense for how feasible this transition is outside of H/S/W.....
My full-time career plans are actually completely different from what I pursued during the summer between my first and second year... I would elaborate, but I prefer to keep this in stealth-mode for now
I certainly had to grind a fair amount for the internship (although VC tends to be on a later timeline and less predictable compared to other industries). The HBS name helps to get your foot in the door when networking, but after that all bets are off. Many buy-side firms (especially some of the smaller ones) that recruit on campus are very lean and only hire 1 or 2 people for the summer. In some buy-side transitions (e.g. hedge funds), the HBS name can even be harmful to your chances (seen as a negative)
Hi! Thanks so much for doing this. I'm just a bit curious, why would the HBS name be seen as a negative?
To be more accurate, it's less the HBS name being seen as a negative, and more of MBAs, in general, being seen as a negative. The vast majority of people who work in the industry don't have an MBA and a fair number of them question the value of the degree. I've lost count of the number of times I heard some fund manager spout some variation of "We don't hire MBAs, we hire PHDs... poor, hungry, driven"
People say they go to HBS/business school to make connections, so who were the most interesting students, alumni, or speakers that you met?
How much did your goals change upon starting HBS vs now?
Do you think HBS was worth the investment, time and money-wise?
Is Section X real or is it just a stereotype?
General pecking order for recruiting into hedge funds/investment management positions at HBS is:
1) people with prior public markets investing experience, followed closely by 2) people with other buyside experience (e.g. PE), after which there is a huge drop off in your chances of landing a position with... 3) people with other finance experience (e.g. sell-side IBD), and then an even greater drop in chances of breaking in with... 4) people with no previous finance experience (e.g. someone who used to be in the military)
Interestingly, in my year, it seemed like there was a significant number of ex-military people who, for whatever reason, were gunning for research analyst positions at hedge funds or the big asset management firms like Fidelity, but most of them had to settle for investment banking associate positions at bulge brackets (or consulting)
This should not be news to anyone on WSO, but even with the HBS brand name on your resume, if you don't have prior experience, your chances of breaking into hedge funds is slim to none.
That said, there are some ways to increase your odds. The investment club at HBS is one of them and is absolutely essential for those interested in pursuing hedge fund/investment management careers. Being in the club gets you access to some exclusive career resources, e.g. you will be included in the investment club mailing list which will have job opportunities sent out on a regular basis. Of course, you could always have a friend in the investment club forward you these jobs, but it's just easier to be in the club yourself.
There is also an investment club resume book that gets circulated to funds who are looking to hire (the only way to be included in this resume book is to be a dues paying member of the investment club).
There are also speaker series, pitch practices, student run investment fund (called "Alpha Fund"), and other opportunities to network with industry professionals (which is how you get jobs in this industry) such as the annual investment conference.
I was a dues paying member of the investment club during my first year, but then I stopped paying dues in the second year after my career interests shifted. No regrets, although I was a little annoyed I didn't get to go on the Omaha trek to get some exclusive 1-on-1 time with Warren Buffett.
I can only speak for PE but my firm recruits out of HBS and has a few interns and maybe a hire every year but even with a top tier mba you have to have experience in the field or have some relevant
I did an emba but from my experience I have met many individuals who interned for us from top mba programs who come in and honestly expect us to kiss their butt because they are at HBS but if you are in a top 50 mba program all the classes are the same and you are probably smart.
Too that I have met great people from top tier schools and the smartest guy I have met went to ASU. No knock on ASU but it’s not known for its academics. The dumbest two guys I used to work with went to Harvard and Yale. The ongoing joke in our office was “how do you know how XXX went Harvard/Yale, because it’s the first thing out of their mouth everyday.”
I have had many friends attend HBS, CSB, Tucks, GSB an it did nothing for and they ended up in crappy FP&A jobs that they could have gotten without going to HBS. I’ve had friends who went the same schools and it did wonders for their careers and they landed their dream job.
It’s based on the individual.
The one thing I disliked about HBS was the culture of people putting on an air of casual indifference about the academics, saying something like "Oh, I didn't have time to read the case, so I only skimmed it..." but then in the middle of class they would make a thoughtful comment that obviously involved a deep reading and accompanying analysis.
Not sure what exactly you mean by stereotypical "Harvard douches," but if you mean people who are elitist and snobby, then yes, there are a fair number of those (but this is not unique to Harvard, any Ivy League school or Stanford would have such bad actors)
Certainly many type A personalities (I would say the vast majority would be classified as such)
I learned many lessons in leadership and management during my MBA that I think will serve me well in the future. During my pre-MBA stint in IB, I developed a solid foundation in finance and valuation (admittedly, the MBA curriculum did not add much to this), but at the end of the day, everything I did was in the capacity of an individual contributor. Though it might sound obvious, rising up in an organization really depends on the softer skills and no matter how brilliant you are as an individual contributor, if you can't lead and manage other people, you won't ever make it to the top.
Definitely - extrapolating from my section of approximately 90 students, I would say 5% of the entire class is made up of undeserving admits (e.g. Chinese fuerdai who can barely speak English, LatAm kids coming from families that control huge businesses/conglomerates who barely speak English, Arab kids that come from Middle Eastern oil wealth who barely speak English, you get the idea...)
Then there are those who are undeserving in the sense that they didn't meet all the necessary requirements one would ordinarily need to enter HBS, but I would argue they still deserve to be at HBS. One such case that comes to mind is a guy who entered HBS at 23 years old with no real work experience (unless you count interning for a Senator as work experience). In most case, if you don't have work experience, it's pretty simple... you won't get accepted to HBS... but this kid's father runs a very large and famous hedge fund (a household name for anyone on WSO) and so he was a shoe-in. With that said; however, I would argue that this kid is actually a deserving admit. Yes, he did not have work experience, so if he was a regular kid with no connections he would ordinarily have been rejected, but this kid was wicked smart and his presence made a positive impact on his classmates and the entire class of 2018 (Full disclosure: I admit, I am probably a little biased, because if things don't end up working out with my immediate post-HBS career plans, he can probably help me get a job at his father's fund)
Thanks for doing this! Let me play devils advocate.
1) I'm not knowledgeable enough about admissions to really comment on this, but I would find that surprising. If anything, it's probably harder to get into HBS from MBB simply due to the sheer number volume of applicants with that profile who apply.
2) In addition to working extra hard in 1st year finance courses, they probably do some intense networking to find a PE summer internship over the summer or find a way to do some part-time work for a fund during the semester. These people will also take a fair number of finance courses in the 2nd year including project based courses that could involve working with a private equity firm. Even though this is academic work for a class, one can "spin" it into sounding like relevant experience during interviews
3) Well, you can do some simple things like register for an on-campus info session (which includes sitting in on a live case discussion). I saw kids from Spain, Latin America and other areas abroad specifically for these sessions. There are also info sessions that happen periodically in major cities abroad.
Thanks for the AMA.
In terms of pure brainpower, is it safe to say that your HBS classmates were far less impressive than your undergrad classmates?
Did you find that there was a social division between those from wealthy families and those who weren't? I know at my alma mater and others, there certainly was a division, as the wealthy hung out with each other and went on lavish trips.
How impressed were the women in Boston by HBS? Did it make the dating life of you and your male classmates far easier?
Do - be able to succinctly communicate your background, skills and interests in under 30 seconds while not being socially awkward
Do - when networking via email, be mindful of the length of your message; it should ideally fit on the screen of a smart phone without the need to scroll down
Do - be clear about why you are contacting them (e.g., industry advice, geographic information, career path questions, etc.) The purpose of an initial email is to establish a time to talk for 15‐20 minutes about these topics over the phone (or better, in-person)
Do - make it easy for the person to respond (e.g. provide them with a list of times that you are available to talk
Do - if possible, get some connection to the person you are networking with (e.g. referral from a friend, colleague, professor, etc.)
Do - do your homework on the company/industry, an informational interview/meeting that you get through networking can easily turn into a real interview - be ready for it!
Don't - you should not explicitly ask for a job, you will put the person you are networking with in an awkward spot
Don't - fail to follow up, forget to thank the people you network for their time, etc. (basic stuff...)
I think the biggest fault that students make is focusing on quantity instead of quality (e.g. Copy-pasting the same messages to multiple people with just the names changed, etc.)