Q&A: About to graduate from HBS - Ask Me Anything

AlphaFound:

How challenging was the coursework? How were clubs? Was everyone very supportive of each other helping each other out?

How challenging one finds the coursework really depends on your previous background. For the WSO crowd, you will be fine in the finance courses, but some people who have never learned finance struggle. First-year finance (Fall and Spring semester) is often considered the most challenging class for most students without a finance background.

Clubs are an essential part of the HBS experience. They provide an opportunity to meet other people in different sections (the social scene at HBS revolves around the section you are affiliated with) as well as work on leadership skills (e.g. holding a leadership position in a student club). They are also a great way to network with professionals who are working in an industry you are interested in targeting (e.g. many students who are interested in getting into hedge funds join the HBS Investment Club)

Students are very helpful and supportive. There are always going to be a few unnecessarily cutthroat bad actors in each section, but the vast majority (98%) of people are willing to help people who are struggling with the material. I saw this often when people with finance experience (IBD, PE, etc.) volunteered to tutor or hold study sessions for students less comfortable with finance.

Michiavelli:

First, thank you for doing this. Now questions; probably cover lot of people's question: 1) What type of school did you attend prior to HBS? Target, Non - Target? 2) GMAT or GRE score, major, GPA prior to applying? 3) What type of work experience or internship did you have prior to going to HBS? 4) What was the school like - your expectation vs. reality?

1) I attended a target 2) GMAT, 730, GPA rounds up to ~3.7 3) Investment banking at a bulge bracket 4) Expectation - relatively light academics will allow me to focus on career and social stuff Reality - the first year of the MBA curriculum is actually quite a bit of work (purposefully designed that way) and can be stressful even with good time management skills

Draper Specter and Co.:

In your one year post, you said you were going to be doing tech focused VC. Are you going to be doing FT with the same firm/same space?

It seems like you had to really grind to secure that internship opportunity. This seems in line with what I know about sell-side to buy-side transitions via business school. Do you think that the opportunities that you were up for were a result of throwing around the HBS name when you were networking? I'd really like to get a sense for how feasible this transition is outside of H/S/W.....

My full-time career plans are actually completely different from what I pursued during the summer between my first and second year... I would elaborate, but I prefer to keep this in stealth-mode for now

I certainly had to grind a fair amount for the internship (although VC tends to be on a later timeline and less predictable compared to other industries). The HBS name helps to get your foot in the door when networking, but after that all bets are off. Many buy-side firms (especially some of the smaller ones) that recruit on campus are very lean and only hire 1 or 2 people for the summer. In some buy-side transitions (e.g. hedge funds), the HBS name can even be harmful to your chances (seen as a negative)

Deo et Patriae One more question, in response to one of your answers below: how did people with nontraditional backgrounds fare in recruiting? You talked about people recruiting for PE by interning through their classes, so I'm curious if people who didn't work in IB or consulting tended to gravitate to a particular field.

itsanumbersgame:

Do you feel that an MBA (specifically a Harvard MBA) has advanced your career? Could you explain how?

Still too early to say. I can say that it has taken my career in an unexpected direction (which I am excited about and would likely not have pursued had I not gone to business school) Time will be the judge of whether it was an actual "advancement"

Peter Bread:

Hey thanks for doing this.

Could you talk about your or your classmates' experience recruiting for investment management/hedge funds? Appreciate any details on the recruiting process, general background of applicants, and the HBS Investment Club (not sure if you were in it, but saw that you mentioned it).

Thanks again!

General pecking order for recruiting into hedge funds/investment management positions at HBS is:

1) people with prior public markets investing experience, followed closely by 2) people with other buyside experience (e.g. PE), after which there is a huge drop off in your chances of landing a position with... 3) people with other finance experience (e.g. sell-side IBD), and then an even greater drop in chances of breaking in with... 4) people with no previous finance experience (e.g. someone who used to be in the military)

Interestingly, in my year, it seemed like there was a significant number of ex-military people who, for whatever reason, were gunning for research analyst positions at hedge funds or the big asset management firms like Fidelity, but most of them had to settle for investment banking associate positions at bulge brackets (or consulting)

This should not be news to anyone on WSO, but even with the HBS brand name on your resume, if you don't have prior experience, your chances of breaking into hedge funds is slim to none.

That said, there are some ways to increase your odds. The investment club at HBS is one of them and is absolutely essential for those interested in pursuing hedge fund/investment management careers. Being in the club gets you access to some exclusive career resources, e.g. you will be included in the investment club mailing list which will have job opportunities sent out on a regular basis. Of course, you could always have a friend in the investment club forward you these jobs, but it's just easier to be in the club yourself.

There is also an investment club resume book that gets circulated to funds who are looking to hire (the only way to be included in this resume book is to be a dues paying member of the investment club).

There are also speaker series, pitch practices, student run investment fund (called "Alpha Fund"), and other opportunities to network with industry professionals (which is how you get jobs in this industry) such as the annual investment conference.

I was a dues paying member of the investment club during my first year, but then I stopped paying dues in the second year after my career interests shifted. No regrets, although I was a little annoyed I didn't get to go on the Omaha trek to get some exclusive 1-on-1 time with Warren Buffett.

I can only speak for PE but my firm recruits out of HBS and has a few interns and maybe a hire every year but even with a top tier mba you have to have experience in the field or have some relevant

I did an emba but from my experience I have met many individuals who interned for us from top mba programs who come in and honestly expect us to kiss their butt because they are at HBS but if you are in a top 50 mba program all the classes are the same and you are probably smart.

Too that I have met great people from top tier schools and the smartest guy I have met went to ASU. No knock on ASU but it’s not known for its academics. The dumbest two guys I used to work with went to Harvard and Yale. The ongoing joke in our office was “how do you know how XXX went Harvard/Yale, because it’s the first thing out of their mouth everyday.”

I have had many friends attend HBS, CSB, Tucks, GSB an it did nothing for and they ended up in crappy FP&A jobs that they could have gotten without going to HBS. I’ve had friends who went the same schools and it did wonders for their careers and they landed their dream job.

It’s based on the individual.

JohnnyLlamma45:

What did you like/dislike about the culture and the people? Are there stereotypical "Harvard douches," so to speak? Lots of type A personalities.

The one thing I disliked about HBS was the culture of people putting on an air of casual indifference about the academics, saying something like "Oh, I didn't have time to read the case, so I only skimmed it..." but then in the middle of class they would make a thoughtful comment that obviously involved a deep reading and accompanying analysis.

Not sure what exactly you mean by stereotypical "Harvard douches," but if you mean people who are elitist and snobby, then yes, there are a fair number of those (but this is not unique to Harvard, any Ivy League school or Stanford would have such bad actors)

Certainly many type A personalities (I would say the vast majority would be classified as such)

genghis1:

First off, thanks for doing this! Forgive me if this question comes off as loaded, but having come from an IB background, did you feel you gained anything academically/professionally from your coursework or did it feel more as if you were checking off a box for a credential?

I learned many lessons in leadership and management during my MBA that I think will serve me well in the future. During my pre-MBA stint in IB, I developed a solid foundation in finance and valuation (admittedly, the MBA curriculum did not add much to this), but at the end of the day, everything I did was in the capacity of an individual contributor. Though it might sound obvious, rising up in an organization really depends on the softer skills and no matter how brilliant you are as an individual contributor, if you can't lead and manage other people, you won't ever make it to the top.

oligarch:

What kind of attitudes did your classmates have towards life ?

Making $10 million would be suicide to them right. I bet everyone there wants to end up on the Forbes list.

It really depends... there is a huge difference between making $10 million over a 30 year career versus making $10 million (after taxes) from building a startup and selling it for a quick exit after 12 months... I think most of my peers at HBS would be okay with the latter scenario...

According to data compiled by Poets&Quants, finance H/S/W MBA grads make $3.5M max. over a lifetime.

JohnDon:

Any blatant cases of an undeserving admit? (i.e. clearly a favor, $, etc.)

Definitely - extrapolating from my section of approximately 90 students, I would say 5% of the entire class is made up of undeserving admits (e.g. Chinese fuerdai who can barely speak English, LatAm kids coming from families that control huge businesses/conglomerates who barely speak English, Arab kids that come from Middle Eastern oil wealth who barely speak English, you get the idea...)

Then there are those who are undeserving in the sense that they didn't meet all the necessary requirements one would ordinarily need to enter HBS, but I would argue they still deserve to be at HBS. One such case that comes to mind is a guy who entered HBS at 23 years old with no real work experience (unless you count interning for a Senator as work experience). In most case, if you don't have work experience, it's pretty simple... you won't get accepted to HBS... but this kid's father runs a very large and famous hedge fund (a household name for anyone on WSO) and so he was a shoe-in. With that said; however, I would argue that this kid is actually a deserving admit. Yes, he did not have work experience, so if he was a regular kid with no connections he would ordinarily have been rejected, but this kid was wicked smart and his presence made a positive impact on his classmates and the entire class of 2018 (Full disclosure: I admit, I am probably a little biased, because if things don't end up working out with my immediate post-HBS career plans, he can probably help me get a job at his father's fund)

FWU:

Thanks for doing this! Let me play devils advocate.

1. What did you hate / like least about HBS?

Felix Oberholzer-Gee

2. What were some shortcomings of your experience at HBS? (i.e. wished they spent more time on this, wished they offered this, etc.)

Nothing immediately comes to mind. Perhaps more opportunities for 1st years and 2nd years to have meaningful interaction? Same idea with MBA students and Exec Ed program participants (currently, the two types of students have zero interaction) Seems to me like it could be a low-hanging fruit for MBA students to find internship or full-time job opportunities and another avenue for executives to find talent for their organizations

3. Were there BS/Joke classes you had to take? (i.e. you couldn't believe they were teaching this crap, not relevant at all, should not be part of curriculum)

BGIE (Business, Government and International Economy) and LCA (Leadership and Corporate Accountability) - both during the spring semester of the required 1st year curriculum

4. Did your professors all have extensive work experience in the field they taught or are they purely academics? Similarly, did you feel at times feel the teachings were too theoretical and could never be applied consistently/pragmatically in the real world?

My finance professors both had relevant professional experience before getting their PhDs and going the academic route. One worked at a hedge fund and the other used to do IBD at a 2nd-tier bulge bracket

Leadership & Organizational Behavior (LEAD) professor used to be a senior partner at a Big-3 law firm.

Entrepreneurial Management (TEM) professor was an early employee and later C-level executive at a startup that is now publicly traded on NYSE

Derno15:

Hi, thanks for the AMA. My questions are regarding getting into HBS: 1. I heard that it is easier to get into HBS from MBB Consulting compared to Upper MM/MF PE as the peer group is generally stronger in PE. What can you say about this? 2. I saw a couple of Consultants from Europe getting into top PEs after MBA. Given that the forum always stresses how important pre-MBA PE experience is, how do these people approach recruiting? 3. I read that networking with a MBA program seems to be important for admission, too (not specifically HBS). Does it also apply to HBS and how to approach as an international?

1) I'm not knowledgeable enough about admissions to really comment on this, but I would find that surprising. If anything, it's probably harder to get into HBS from MBB simply due to the sheer number volume of applicants with that profile who apply.

2) In addition to working extra hard in 1st year finance courses, they probably do some intense networking to find a PE summer internship over the summer or find a way to do some part-time work for a fund during the semester. These people will also take a fair number of finance courses in the 2nd year including project based courses that could involve working with a private equity firm. Even though this is academic work for a class, one can "spin" it into sounding like relevant experience during interviews

3) Well, you can do some simple things like register for an on-campus info session (which includes sitting in on a live case discussion). I saw kids from Spain, Latin America and other areas abroad specifically for these sessions. There are also info sessions that happen periodically in major cities abroad.

Riodeginario:

Can I have look at the essay that you submitted to HBS? Just want to see what they are looking for in a good essay. Thanks!

I'm afraid I can't do that. Besides, the director of admissions has changed (my year was the last year that Dee Leopold served as director of admissions) and so I am sure there are some nuanced changes in what they are looking for in the essays

Harvard sells a book titled 50 Successful Harvard Application Essays. It's by the Harvard Crimson, but its geared more towards undergrads applying. If you want you can probably check it out.

https://www.amazon.com/50-Successful-Harvard-Application-Essays/dp/0312…

FinanceBrah:

Thanks for the AMA. Just realized how long this was so I've grouped together by overall theme;

• I'm at a small HF now and I'm wondering what the level of competition and difficulty is like the more experience you have. I saw an HBS resume book at work the other day and it was ridiculous how some of the people were already so successful before HBS that I don't really get why they took the time off from work at all. Considering you are at the end of the tunnel, have you received any job offers which you've already turned down? Do you think the same way about your career as compared to before you started HBS or has the idea of being a new grad not settled in yet? In retrospect, how do you imagine things would have been different if you skipped HBS altogether?

That's a lot of different questions in one... For the first question - yes Second question - HBS has changed the way I think about my career in terms of leadership and management Third question - Healthier bank account

• What is the overall perception of Harvard students regarding other programs at the school? I know this is a general question considering there is HBS Executive Education/HBX/Extension but I am interested in hearing if there is useful overlap or comparisons to be made.

A gross over-generalization, but judging by the eye-rolling and snarky attitude of some of my peers during the morning exercises of commencement - when each school (e.g. the school of medicine, law school, etc.) was introduced by their respective deans to have their degrees ceremoniously conferred by the president of Harvard - I think most business school students look down on people in other schools (including Executive Education and Extension)

I will refrain from commenting on Extension, but for Executive Education - this is really a shame. You will meet some very interesting people in Executive Education (especially people in the OPM program) and they are good people to have in your network (e.g. can help with job opportunities, learning about other industries, etc.)

HBX is a little different. I'm not sure if they still do this, but the year I was admitted, they required us to take some online diagnostic tests in accounting, economics and analytics. If you failed any of them, they required you to the take the HBX course associated with whichever one you failed. Even if you didn't fail, they recommend you do HBX.

• Since we know you missed out on Omaha, could you speak more about the quality of trips and events? Any international? What was your favorite event that you couldn't have done without HBS? Are there any notable activities to look out for which are open to industry professionals not at HBS? Anything to keep an eye on while networking?

Trips (called "Treks") are one of the highlights of HBS, although your mileage may vary depending on your personal circumstances (e.g. single or in a relationship, etc.) Plenty of international treks (Israel, Japan, Lebanon, Colombia, Peru, and plenty of others that I can't remember) In addition, many clubs organize their own annual treks (the previously mentioned investment club does Omaha trek, but other clubs such as Tech Club do a "Silicon Valley Trek," Outdoors Clubs have a "Kilimanjaro Trek," etc.)

Nothing comes to mind in terms of notable activities to look out for which are open to industry professionals... perhaps the investment club conference and the VC/PE conference? There are also energy, health care and tech conferences hosted by the respective club in question.

• Candidly, who has the most interesting profile in your class now that you've gotten to know everyone? Did an obvious standout make you reconsider your plans after graduation? I'm going to need to know this because this because TVIX isn't giving me enough overly complex methods of being reckless that don't involve an STD or arson.

There are many too many interesting people at HBS to name just one "most interesting" profile. My favorite are the non-traditional people who didn't do consulting or IB pre-MBA. I tend to get along really well with students who have done something entrepreneurial and don't really "need" HBS. e.g. someone who has already founded or sold a successful startup and is doing HBS "just for fun" (as opposed to advancing their career or re-branding themselves to break into a certain industry)

Dances With Newfoundland:

Thanks for the AMA.

1. In terms of pure brainpower, is it safe to say that your HBS classmates were far less impressive than your undergrad classmates?

Not at all

2. Did you find that there was a social division between those from wealthy families and those who weren't? I know at my alma mater and others, there certainly was a division, as the wealthy hung out with each other and went on lavish trips.

For American students, not so much. Most American students at HBS are comfortable/upper-middle class, and if you're in that bracket you can associate and get along fine with people much wealthier than you.

Where I found some evidence of social divisions was between international students who came from wealth and internationals from more modest means.

3. How impressed were the women in Boston by HBS? Did it make the dating life of you and your male classmates far easier?

In a committed relationship so I won't comment on this, but I'm sure wearing the HBS fleece does help in getting noticed when you go out to bars or whatever. I have the hbs fleece but I only got it for posterity (plus, I'm a sports jacket/blazer type guy when I go out)

Dances With Newfoundland:

3. How impressed were the women in Boston by HBS? Did it make the dating life of you and your male classmates far easier?

Lol. Everyone who's been around WSO for a few years should find this hilarious.

BBA18:

How many of your classmates, whose background you're familiar with, were non-target UG w/out IB experience?

It's tough to answer this because there are a lot of military folks at HBS who went to West Point, Annapolis, etc., and those service academies are pretty competitive (on par with Ivy Leagues), but I don't know if you would consider them "targets" in the traditional sense...

Excluding those military people, in my section of ~90, I counted 8 who fit your stated criteria (non-target undergrad and no IB experience), so extrapolate to the entire class, and you get about 9%

queertheory:

How did international students fare in getting jobs in investment banking or consulting?

They do well for consulting. At least in my section, nearly every person (including international students) who wanted to do consulting ended up at one of the Big 3 for their summer internship (and I think all of them who want to do full-time ended up getting offers) Worth noting that this included some internationals with very heavy/thick accents, but they were not only able to get offers at the Big 3 but were able to stay in the US! (visa sponsorship, etc.)

I'm afraid my insights into investment banking placement is very limited... I only know 2 people in my section who did IB over the summer, and none of them are doing IB full-time - one is going into consulting, the other is still looking. I've heard informally from someone who is doing IB full-time that "nearly everyone" (his words, not mine) who wanted IB is doing IB full-time.

Frodo's Banging:

Hi Deo et Patriae

Thanks for doing this. I have one straightforward question.

Was you letter of recommendation from an HBS alum? Similarly, how important is it to have one / how much can having an HBS alum write your letter of recommendation impact ones chances?

The two people who wrote my letters of recommendation had no affiliation to HBS (or Harvard, for that matter)

In my opinion, it's not important at all, and having an alum write your letter of recommendation is merely icing on the cake (nice-to-have, but not a must-have)

LittleRocketMan:

Did you meet any people whose background was in sell-side trading and if so, are you able talk at all about what product was the most prevalent amongst those people?

No, not on the sell-side. HBS does not like traders. I met one or two traders during my 2 years, but they were all on the buy-side. Equity derivatives and STIR products.

GUUSWAYNE:

how many older students(32+) were there in your section? How did they fit in with the rest of the class?

I had three in my section who were over 32 at the time of matriculation - all were career changers (e.g. one was a former practicing physician)

In my section, the older students fit in really well with everyone and were among the more popular students in the section. Having that experience and perspective (and in the case of the doctor, being able to ask for free medical advice!) was very valuable both inside and outside the classroom. Our section might have been unusual, because being over 32 usually entails having a wife and kids - but the three in our section were single - which made a huge difference (e.g. being able to go out for beer at a moment's notice)

Passionate Investor:

Hi, thanks for doing the AMA.

1. Why did you choose to go to HBS?

2. What is something you liked about HBS that wasn't advertised/mentioned on the HBS website? Something that is lesser known to outsiders.

1) In an era of increasing specialization, there is still value in the general manager's perspective

2) The quesadillas in the school cafeteria are the bomb diggity

Port Ricky:

Is Constance Frye a real person?

Also -

What are the conditions and circumstances around the proper wearing of the Harvard tie?

• Is their a hierarchy of or meaning to different knots?
• Is there a matching pocket square?
• Do they make a Harvard bow tie?

Are there any other considerations I have overlooked regarding the Harvard tie?

Thanks!

Vivat nostra societas, vivant studiosi; crescat una veritas floreat fraternitas Patriae prosperitas