"Five years from now..." is a pretty good benchmark for the half-life of most business or career-related arcs (okay, maybe 5-10 years, depending on the career or industry).
As an undergrad or fresh grad, of course your undergrad matters - to you, to your peers, to recruiters, to your parents (if you have helicopter parents that is). Beyond 5 years, it doesn't.
As a b-school student and recent grad, your MBA matters for a while, but peters out within 5 years or so.
When you're in your mid- to late-30s (which to most undergrads may seem "old" but is not) - it's again what you've achieved in the last 5 years that factors into most decision-making (whether to hire you, invest in your company, etc) and far less if any what you did in your 20s.
In your 40s, no one cares what you did in your 20s or a decade before in your 30s for most cases. And so forth.
That's why the "what have you done for me lately" world is a double-edged sword: you can't rest on your laurels from long ago, but any failures are also long forgotten as well.
If there's one piece of advice I *know* from experience (and those I know) that I could give to undergrads and those who are early in their career, it's this:
Be prepared to reinvent yourself. At least a few times in your lifetime. From my own experience and those of my peers (now in their 40s and 50s), especially how the economy has sped up considerably (even more than 10-20 years ago), be prepared to start over faster than you think.
Treat every career like it's an NFL career: short-lived. You will get replaced by younger and cheaper players (and if you join the coaching staff, be prepared to be fired multiple times). And count on this happening every 5-10 (maybe 15?) years or so. Where you have to start over.
Sometimes there's no choice - it's 2008/09, you get fired from a finance job that won't return, so you start a new career.
Sometimes it's a huge change in your personal circumstances - marriage, divorce, kids, death in the family, unexpected healthcare issues with you or your loved ones.
Other times it's existential - you hate your career/life, you need a complete change, or you have some sort of wake up call, scare, or you discover a calling.
The prestige on your resume isn't going to protect you from this, nor is it going to help as much as you think - ESPECIALLY once you're in your late 30s and beyond when the world sees your 20s as "childhood" and heavily discounted.
And ask anyone who has had to do a complete 180 in their career/life - it's not easy. There's a hangover period, a transition period of sorts where you will be scared. But just know that it's an unavoidable fact of life.
Stop focusing on prestige, safety and guarantees - because it's not going to pan out. I'm not being pessimistic. It's a fact of life and the odds are stacked against it working out the way you have envisioned it in your mind. Maybe this job you've envisioned is cushy and takes you beyond b-school for the 2 years. But then what? You think you're all set up for the rest of your life? Here's what WILL happen: you will have to pivot, and pivot hard, at least a few times in your life - maybe it's by force, or by choice, but it WILL happen where you essentially have to start over. And no matter how hard you try to play God in your own life, it's unavoidable: sometimes you see your career ending like a terminal disease, other times it's sudden death.
So instead, build the skills for how to reinvent yourself. Being able to start over, reinvent yourself is going to be most important. And that comes down to one thing:
Curiosity - not many people are as curious as you think. Especially business types at a young age: obsessed with money, prestige, power and playing God in their fantasies. These folks have focused only on learning what they deem will be useful. Being truly curious means learning for the sake of learning - yes you have to balance between being a dilettante and being obsessive, but it's more a state of mind: to constantly challenge and learn about new people, experiences, etc. Learn a new instrument. A new language. Or take a cooking class, dance class, etc. And the more you can get into that habit now, the better, because as you get older and settle in, it's harder to do that. This state of mind and being willing to "be the beginner" is an important muscle that becomes crucial when you have to "be a beginner" when the stakes are higher: when you have to start over. You will find as you graduate and get into the workforce, a lot of people want to be the expert (or pretend to be), but are terrified of being a beginner, or being seen as a beginner.
When you are afraid of being a beginner, you are afraid of learning new things. When you are afraid of being a beginner, you are afraid of the small failings along the way, which only makes any large potential failing that much more terrifying.
Mod Note (Andy): Best of 2016, this post ranks #18 for the past year
Haha no TED talks, but I wouldn't be surprised if some version of this was mentioned at TED, since I don't think it's a particularly new idea. It's just something we all need to constantly remind ourselves with some version of:
And so forth. I guess it's also reinventing an old idea to make us really listen for the first time when it's said in a different way.
I agree with the basic message of your post in regards to reinventing yourself throughout your career/life, but I do not agree with the premise that your undergrad and MBA matter less as time passes. They continue to matter a great deal, although the relationship between your past education and your current status in life grows increasingly indirect as time passes. Why were you able to get into that prestigious university for your MBA? Primarily because of the undergraduate institution you attended and the job it afforded you after you graduated. Similarly, the job you obtain after receiving your MBA from [insert prestigious university here] is generally a direct result of having attended said school. The same relationship then applies to future positions.
Others that attend schools that are considered "less prestigious" simply won't have the same opportunities that someone graduating from Stanford or Harvard will have. Could two MBA graduates, one from your run-of-the-mill state school and the other from Stanford GSB, eventually end up in the same place as time passes? Sure. But I can guarantee you that it's going to be a hell of a lot harder for the former to do so.
So, yes, school prestige, for better or for worse, matters a great deal. If nothing else, it gives you optionality in life that others simply will not have.
Despite all the shits you are being thrown, this is probably true even if people don't want to hear it
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@WSO2009" i think there's a slight difference between your analogy and the analogy straight cash made. if i'm understanding you correctly, (in your analogy) you seem to refer to 2 established professionals who are already in X position at Y Company (having come there from different schools). They're both on equal footing and don't need to compete w/ each other to secure the job...it's theirs already.
on the other hand, i believe straight cash is using the analogy that these 2 established professionals are vying for the same job (now or in the future). In this case, however, 1 of these people went to a "run-of-the-mill state school", while the other went to a prestigious UG. if there is 1 slot and these are the final 2 candidates being considered (assuming they are both qualified), as a tie breaker, the more pedigreed candidate would often edge out his competition.
let's be real - this isn't news to anyone.
+1 SB @straight cash homie"
All I was trying to say is that going to a prestigious school affords you opportunities that others won't have, whether it's right after you graduate or 10 years down the road. Using an extreme example...how many MBAs from the University of Phoenix have you seen that are the CEO of a company? Probably none. CEOs from Harvard? Probably quite a few. Does having gone to a more prestigious school mean that the Harvard guy is necessarily smarter than the University of Phoenix guy? No (although I'm going to infer that he probably is). The guy from Harvard simply had more opportunities than the other guy. Maybe he got a job at GS for a few years, then transitioned to PE, and he's now started his own company. Does the University of Phoenix guy have those same opportunities? No. GS isn't going to be recruiting at his campus (if he even has one...he probably took online classes). And after blowing $100k+ on his MBA, he'll be lucky to be employed, let alone at GS.
So, to say that the prestige of a school doesn't matter is flat out wrong. Not sure how anyone can argue this. And no, I didn't go to some private Ivy League school. I partied my way through college at a public school. It's just objectively wrong to say that the prestige of one's school doesn't matter.
And I can appreciate being at a disadvantage for not doing something others consider "prestigious". I had to work my way into PE from a non-traditional background. It was hard, and I got lucky. If I would have done IB right out of school, it would have been much easier.
We're not talking about schools like University of Phoenix, idiot. That's a diploma mill. The OP was, I assume, talking about schools like Georgetown, Vanderbilt, Rice, USC, Kelley, and more, that are generally considered less prestigious than the Top 15 schools.
To give you an example, I know this guy who went to Kelley, and is more successful than this other Harvard guy who is a corporate slave and just miserable. The Kelley guy is so successful, he is currently in talks with LinkedIn, who are interested in his multi million dollar "start up".
I can give a lot of examples like that. But what I'm trying to say is that it doesn't matter where you go to school, it's how you use your skills and the degree. The problem is that not a lot of people are willing to struggle and persevere, which leads to this dependence on "prestige".
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School prestige absolutely matters. It is just a fact. I think it is borderline irresponsible to say otherwise. Not to knock Kelley but Harvard>>>>Kelley. The average outcome of students at Harvard blows away that of those at Kelley. It is important to, for the most part, ignore successful outliers.
Would you advise some highschool students that dropping out is okay because there are a couple of multi-millionaires out there who did so?
No. All I'm saying is that it doesn't matter where you go to school. If you got accepted into Harvard, more power to you. If you couldn't get in, and got into Rice or Kelley instead, it's not the end of the world, you should be just as excited, and happy about it.
You probably should watch Mr Nobody. I love this quote : "Every path is the right path. Everything could've been anything else. And it would have just as much meaning."
This thread is prosposterous. The bottom line is this. Most of the people who go to ANY "presitige" school are typipically of the same ilk, and are generally extremely intellectually competent. That doesn't mean someone from Pace or Rutgers isn't just as capable it means they merely started from a different station. In my extensive Wall Street experience I would say presitige gets you in the door because of networks and hiring managers assume you are bright - they don't have to guess. A lower echelon school hire will have to prove themselves tenfold (which usually leads to the "Harvard guys are lazy" dialogue). Within 6 months all things are equal internally and only hard work and intellect move you up the food chain. That said, without a doubt, presitige gets you an invite to the party, the same party that you are forced to hustle your way into if you come from an ancillary school - unless you have a connection at that firm. I have hired scores of not hundreds of people and I can now say I would take ANYONE who finished top of class from a top state school (NC, Berkeley, Texas, Wisconsin, et al) undergrad and ANYONE who finished from a top 10 MBA first for a wide array of different reasons predominately work ethic and intellect. Anyone who doesn't believe or understand this has never hired or managed anyone. That said once you are in a firm, regardless of what your background is, or where you came from - it is all up to you.
I define success as not feeling the need to participate on either side of these threads by the time you're 5 years out of school.