Mod Note: Each day we'll be posting the top WSO forum posts of 2014. This one was originally posted on 7/5/14 and ranks #15 for the year by total silver banana count. You can see all our top ranked content here.
I recently completed my first year at Booth and felt compelled to share my experiences and advice through a follow-up post to: To Anyone Considering an MBA
It would take me forever to do a complete synopsis of my first year. As such, I’m going to hit some of the highlights and turn this into in a Q&A session rather than a lecture. So questions welcome. And for those of you who lack the patience to read through the post, the summary is that b-school has been amazing and truly lived up to the high expectations that I had set prior to matriculating.
The first important thing for people to realize is that the MBA is an individual journey. You complete it alongside hundreds of peers, but your experience is uniquely yours. Everyone has their own reasons for pursuing the degree. For many it is to explore new career opportunities or land that much-coveted job at McKinsey. Others are looking to establish a professional network. Some put a priority on academics and challenge themselves through classes. There are those that are simply looking to enjoy themselves. Finally, there are people who have no idea why they are there and are figuring it out as they go.
Before It Began
So, on to my story. I took a little over three months off before orientation and traveled extensively, both internationally and domestically. It was easily three of the more enjoyable months of my life. Nothing compares to the peace of mind that comes with having absolute freedom over your schedule while not having to worry about the future. I was able to connect with friends and family I hadn’t seen in forever, read books, and pursue hobbies that had fallen by the wayside when I was working. After six years of working, it was exactly the mental reset I needed. I encourage everyone that isn’t cash-strapped to leave to take at least a month off. It is worth every moment.
Social
Regarding the social aspect to Booth, I’m going to borrow from a post I made a few months ago on another thread:
The MBA is crafted in such a manner that you design your own experience. If you want to be academic to the exclusion of all else, you can certainly fade into the shadow of your 600 classmates only to be seen at class and study groups. You can also choose to be hyper social and attend what is daily or even twice daily social events, taking advantage of Booth's grade non-disclosure and doing the bare minimum to get a B (which is usually about 15 hours a week, including nine hours of class time). People self-select. One's impression of the social aspect of b-school is more a reflection on him or herself rather than the school as a whole. This is true for EVERY top business school. Some examples from the past 10 days:Two weekends ago, more than 100 Booth students rented RVs and drove to the Kentucky Derby for the weekend. They partied all weekend, grilled food, played games, watched and bet on the horse races, etc. Despite this being one of the most "American" experiences during the MBA program, there were tons of internationals South America and Europe.
On Thursday, Booth held its weekly TNDC (Thursday Night Drinking Club). Essentially, this is an unofficial club where a few students reserve an entire bar each week and hundreds of students always show up. It happens every week, even during finals.
On Friday, Booth students performed the annual Follies, a three hour set of skits that poke fun at b-school life. Before the event, students attended the weekly Liquidity Preference Function where they had free food and drinks. More than one hundred students participated in Follies and hundreds of people attended LPF and Follies.
On Saturday, the Jewish Business Student Association reserved the roofdeck of a bar and held an afternoon party to celebrate Israel's Independence Day. More than 125 people attended.
On Sunday, the Armed Forces Group (military vets from all countries) organized a full-day outdoor paintball match. I don't have a final count but more than 100 attendees I believe.
Meanwhile, many people were out of town as a large group of second years had organized a weekend trip to Miami to hang out and have fun.
I'm not even cherry-picking dates or events here. This is literally what went on in the last week and doesn't include any of the athletic events, house parties, trips, and other things that people do on a weekly basis. The number of opportunities to partake in social events at Booth exceed the amount of time you have in your schedule. I'm assuming that the same holds true for other top MBA programs, but you're way off base if you think Booth kids lock themselves in their rooms all day and study
From my understanding, Booth wasn’t a fun school 10+ years ago. The majority of students lived in Hyde Park and focused on academics. This has been completely flipped on its head in recent years. Most Booth students now live close together in downtown Chicago and place a high degree of value on social activities. The student body definitely has “nerdy” undertones – it is hard not to with a class full of professionally accomplished 700+ GMAT scorers. However, we still have our fair share of people who like to rage and blow off class to go play volleyball at beach.
The Value of Academics
Academics is probably the area that I have been most disappointed with. As someone who didn’t have an undergrad finance degree, I was really hoping to broaden my knowledge base beyond what I learned at work. Unfortunately many of the classes have deep seeded roots in theory that are only marginally applicable to the real world. For example: after taking “Investments,” I still don’t know what a Swap is, but I can certainly tell you how to identify and profit from a mispricing arbitrage opportunity if one were to exist. This is prevalent not just in some of the finance courses but many of the international business and strategy courses as well. Not every class is theory-driven as I’ve already found a few to be quite useful in PE. I suspect it is similar at all of the top schools.
The saving grace to this is simple: Grade Non-Disclosure. GND is a closely abided by policy that prevents every student from disclosing their GPA or GPA-like indicators to employers. Similarly, employers are forbidden from asking students about their marks. The result is incredibly powerful. I have no idea who is getting As and who is getting CS, and it really doesn’t matter. This enables students to either take challenging classes or focus their efforts on getting a job without worrying about consequences. Whatever your reason, you don’t get penalized in recruiting for leading a balanced life. And for those who enjoy hitting the books, we have distinction designations for the top 5% and 20% of the class.
You Want a Job?
Now onto careers. This is probably the most talked about subject for MBA students. The whole degree is surprisingly career centric, particularly for those interested in investment banking or consulting. In fact, both of these paths have an overwhelming amount of events and requirements that include networking, meals, one-off conversations, and info-sessions. Starting in week two through the entire first quarter the students are faced with an onslaught of recruiters from every institution under the sun. Pretty much everyone that puts in the effort ends up at a bulge bracket or elite boutique in the geography they want. A lot of people seemed to have about three internship offers each when recruiting was done.
For those conducting off-campus searches, your ability to succeed is up to you. I spent very little time looking for an internship but found all the alumni that I contacted to be extremely helpful in sharing information or connecting me to people I wanted to speak with. The Booth network is surprisingly strong in PE, albeit less-so as you expand outside of the Mid-west and the country. When combined with my existing network I found that I had a 1st degree connection to pretty much any fund that I was interested in learning more about. Pretty powerful stuff as the school continues to build in reputation.
At this point I’ve probably written too much and lost 99% of readers. But remember, what I have shared is a small glimpse into my experience. Everyone has their own.
What are you doing this summer?
Why on earth would you recommend this? Wouldn't a summer job at a shop you want to go to be the best thing to do? Or at least some kind of PE experience?
Also, how do you feel about being so far from NYC? One of my sticking points with Booth is the location.
1) I spoke to all of my former PE partners for advice on what I should do for the summer. They unanimously told me to try something different for the summer. One suggested I go work for McKinsey to learn their frameworks and improve my operational knowledge. 2) I've heard (I don't have substantial hard evidence) that a lot of PE firms don't hire their summer interns for full time. I interviewed at one firm ($1bn latest fund) that straight up told me that they have no intention of hiring their intern and that they strictly hire their pre-MBAs back as VPs after they go to b-school. 3) If you already have PE experience, an extra 10 weeks is not going to move the needle. 4) Similar to point #2, I heard a bunch of people had to "re-recruit" for PE after their internships. Afterall, post-MBA positions are usually made available based on the fundraising cycle. Many firms won't even know their needs a year or more in advance when they are hiring interns.
Regarding being far from NYC:
1) Chicago is hardly far from NYC. It is quite the quick flight and there are a massive number of flights available. 2) For those doing banking / consulting recruiting, the NYC firms all come to campus for networking events and to interview. 3) I was able to establish conversations and secure interviews at PE shops in multiple different states without ever setting foot in their respective cities. These firms source talent nationally -- they don't only look for talent in their backyard. If you want evidence -- how many HBS people are there working in PE in NYC? West Coast? Texas? London? Same holds true for Booth students (although there aren't as many of them in PE as HBS, obviously). 4) Lastly, I personally have no desire to work in NYC. Proximity to NYC adds no value to me. In fact, one reason I disliked Columbia was that the school is in NYC. I don't want to debate the pros and cons of the city in this thread (it's been done, recently) -- but this was how I viewed the situation.
I have four five that applied to Booth with great academic profiles, 2+2 (or 3+2 as seems to be common these days), and a host of other strong characteristics. They were ALL rejected. I was a bit shocked at first. One got into Wharton, one into Kellogg, one into Fuqua, another took a post-MBA role in PE and skipped the MBA, and the last left the industry to found a start-up. All quite talented people. I think the rejections were due to two things though:
1) Booth isn't looking to fill up its class with IBD + PE people. While there are a handful, the school could easily have more if it didn't reject their applications. It really is true that the school attempts to build an entire class rather than accept the "smartest" or highest paid individuals that apply. Booth is teeming with people from non-finance backgrounds that were successful, be it at Teach for America, F500s, Consulting, or their family business.
2) Playing off thought #1, I think fit is an incredibly important filter that the school uses to select candidates. Booth definitely has a midwestern feel despite its global student body. It is very apparent to me that the school only accepts people who fit this mold. As you might imagine, the stereotypical image of the NYC banker / high-finance guy would really struggle in this regards. I think many of them get filtered out as a "bad fit" as a result. To be clear: We have plenty of folks from New England and NYC at Booth, they just tend not to align with the stereotype. Self-selection probably plays a meaningful role as well.
Regarding how successful were people at PE (internship) recruiting, that's a long topic. Two highlights:
1) Also surprisingly, there are a small number of people with PE (and banking) backgrounds that aren't interested in returning to finance. They are leaving the industry to pursue start-ups or even try their hand at marketing / corporate gigs. Whatever their personal reason, they aren't interested in returning to PE despite their eligibility.
2) Everyone I know that was "qualified" for a PE gig ended up in PE for the summer. This is probably a benefit of not having too many pre-MBA PE people in the student body. When alums come to Booth to hire a PE guy, the competition isn't fierce at all. In fact, there were probably 10-20 people that did not have PE experience that landed gigs at small PE shops thanks to the school's PE lab and similar programs. The size range of PE shops that people are going to is quite diverse. We have people going to everywhere: from 2-man shops to Apollo. Most seem to end up at a similar size shop to the one they were at before school. Note, this is just summer internships I'm talking about here.
Hey CB,
Thanks for somewhat emphasizing on the negative elements of the MBA program. I think it's sobering advice to some of us to have unrealistic expectations of what the program is really all about (this is probably brady's fault)
Might sound like a dumb question, but I'm curious on what URM representation at Booth is like. Any insight?
We have an extreme amount of diversity as it pertains to people with different ethnic backgrounds. A large part of this is due to internationals which make up about a third of the class. If I were to guess, the largest non-Caucasian group would be the Latins, followed by the Asians and Indians. Most of them were working in their home countries prior to coming to Booth and may not fit your description of URM (I recognize that Asians and Indians tend not be classified as URM). The school doesn't have an overwhelming amount of Europeans or Africans, although I think this is probably due to self-selection above all else.
In terms of the LBGTQ community, they definitely have a presence at Booth. In fact, I find them to be one of the most social and out-going (no pun intended) contingents at the school.
One thing to note though is that everyone is extremely bright and motivated. You hear a lot of stories online about people who "only got in because they were an URM." I don't think that's the case at Booth. People that check the URM box more than hold their own academically and socially.
If you know you want to do consulting, you have a real shot at MBB regardless of your background. That's the best I can really tell you.
People live frugally compared to the lives they were living prior to school. But frugally means different things to different people. No one is living in a bad neighborhood or turning 1 bedroom apartments into 2 in order to save cash. They do abstain from participating in events based on price though. A few examples:
There is an annual week long ski trip in December after first quarter finals end. Hundreds of students go, but it costs about $1500 all-in. A lot of people elect to skip this trip on the basis of price. Some people decide to splurge and go but cut back on eating out, etc.
The Kentucky Derby trip cost about $350/person for the entire weekend. Very few people at Booth would consider this an insignificant sum. There were still 100 - 150 people who attended though. Of course, that means that 450 - 500 people DIDN'T attend.
The reality is that there are enough events on campus that are absolutely free (and even provide free food and drinks) that you could have a very active social life without spending a penny. There are people who do this. You'll miss out on some of the marquee events because there is no way you're going to go to Miami without having to at least pay airfare. People's budgets seem to allow for them to partake in at least one big event each quarter.
Again, I'm not the best person to talk to regarding budgeting. People seem to build their own and largely ignore the one set forth by the school. It is really hard for anyone to stay within that budget. The one thing you should keep in mind though is that you'll make money during your summer internship. A lot of employers will also pay you a sign-on bonus or partially reimburse second year tuition once you land a full time job. There are also ways to win scholarships during the school year if you're a rock-star. So overall, you aren't as broke as you think you are.
I try to stack at least two of my classes on the same day so that I have five days a week class-free. As you might imagine, this gives me (and every other student) a TON of free time relative to when we were working. What you do with it is really up to you. Most people join a few clubs that they're interested in. My school-related activities are pretty diverse -- I'm heavily involved in a school sport as well as school governance stuff. I also spend a massive amount of time socializing with peers either in common areas, over meals/drinks, or at events. I also take time to work out, read books, watch movies, and some other personal hobbies that I delayed way too much prior to my coming to school.
While I do all this, I definitely take my classes seriously too. Despite my extensive business background, it still takes a lot of effort to get an A- or an A. On the other hand, it takes a lot of lack of effort to get a B- or a C+. Some classes are quite difficult and will leave you in the dust if you don't keep up with the homework or put in 5-10 hours of studying prior to the exam. You'll still pass if you blow off class and are reasonably intelligent, but no one coasts to straight A's. Everything is curved and you're competing against some of the brightest students in the world -- some of which came to Booth exclusively for the academics. I've heard from friends that this is quite different at HBS (where it is hard to study for exams because everything is case based and qualitative). But at Booth, even the soft classes are backed by data and analysis.
As for badass trips, definitely. I did both Vegas and Miami with classmates -- although no private jet. A number of other trips as well. My understanding is that they really pick up in the second year once people have jobs and really don't care about academics at all.