Should I do Masters in the UK or the US?
Hey guys not going to start Masters anytime soon but wanted to know what you all think about Masters. Is doing a Masters in the U.K. (London specifically and Unis like LSE, Imperial or UCL) better than somewhere in the US (I know I can’t just say somewhere in the US but I’ve got my eyes on Wharton, Harvard Business School, UC Berkeley, Brown and Columbia)? I am also just a graduate so I do not know anything about the tax laws in either countries but I’m curious to know your stance on this.
P.S: I did my undergrad in London which is the reason why I would want to do my Masters at London
I would do the Master's in the country you want to live and work in afterwards. Unless you are a US citizen or LPR, you can't live or work in the US easily. A degree in the US could open an avenue that might (!) lead to a visa and a green card.
While the US and the UK have similarities, ultimately they are different countries. Which culture do you prefer more? Where do your family members live?
I’m Asian and my parents live in Asia. In regards to what my priorities are, I will put money over anything but family and I know that comp in US is better than the UK. I just wanted to know your opinion because I do not know anything about the US. I do not know anything about the taxes either. If you were me and really have no kind of attachment to either country, which one would you go for and why?
I have a lot of Asian friends (mostly China, India, Pakistan, Bangladeshi, Malaysian, but also from other regions).
If you are young, healthy, unwed, without dependents, educated, employable, and are willing to work hard... - I would advise you to visit the US if you haven't done so already. Do a "recce trip" to the potential colleges, explore the area, meet your peers and the locals, do a road trip around that spot... if you like it, I would recommend studying and living in the US.
I currently live and work in both the US and the UK and I would prefer the US. But I have a lot of family in the UK and in Europe and I have previously left everything behind and have lived in the US also. I just prefer the American lifestyle, the US are more diverse in geography, people, culture, attitudes, cuisine, music, etc. within the same country. Europe is also very diverse, but the diversity is reflected in multiple countries.
Likewise, if you really like your life in the UK currently, there is not much need to change anything. If you are about to graduate, have a girlfriend, with lots of local friends, a job lined up, etc... I would think twice if you really want to move to a new country/culture.
Without knowing you and who you are, my friends who are minorities seem much happier in the US. While there are issues with racism in the US, everyday life appears easier for them in the US. This doesn't mean Europe is a bad place, just less advanced when it comes to integration of minorities in some cases. It will take a few more years until they are able to catch up with a few things, that's it.
I am originally from Europe and when I listen to some of my (educated) European friends, I can kind of understand why the United States would be seen as a haven for immigrants by some people (melting pot, land of opportunity, etc). The words I hear are just too cruel to repeat and I have heard this so many times. It seems harder for non-EU immigrants/visible minorities to feel like they are at home in European countries (due to language barriers, cultural elements, smaller circle of friends, attitude of host nation, ..). But that might be the view from the people I know and I could be wrong.
If you are able to cover the tuition fees of an American college you should have better opportunities in the US, IMO.
Income should be higher in the US, cost of living is comparable in larger cities. My NYC expenses are higher than my London ones though. I personally pay fewer taxes in the US, but that is mainly because my real estate is in locations with low property taxes.
If you can, visit the US before making any decisions as every state/region/area is quite different from what you see on YouTube or on TV.
The biggest challenges in the US for intl. students are often:
- securing a work permit post graduation (visa needs to be sponsored by family/spouse, employer or US officials)
- some immigrants have a harder time with integrating themselves into the culture (depends on the individual also, the US are very international generally and very open-minded); relies on who is migrating, for what purpose, for how long, and from what culture they are from originally, what age, etc
- depending on where their family members are, the US can be far away. So if someone is family-oriented this could be an issue. I personally don't care that much about my family members.
- depending on the area of the college/city, it can be fairly empty. Often people don't realize how gigantic the US are and how distant other people and cities can be. Europe is far more dense in population and activities. Unless you are in a city with good/safe public transportation, you might need a car as well.
- international people in the US have to be very organized; they have to be on top of finances, immigration/visa/legal, and opportunities a lot more than elsewhere. If a person doesn't want to deal with paperwork, or doesn't like complicated legal scenarios - this isn't the place to be. Immigration to the US is one of the most complex endeavors one can attempt and takes resilience, patience and hard work.
If you like a more "European lifestyle" within North America... there is always Canada, which is also a beautiful country.
As an Asian American who has now lived in London for around 2 years I actually completely disagree with almost all your points. How long have you been in America?
The UK (can't speak for the rest of Europe) is a significantly more hospitable place to be as a non-white person. And I don't honestly see how someone can argue otherwise.
Violence against Asians? In London some drunkard might call you a slur, but in NYC people have gotten killed. My girlfriend (also asian) is still in NYC and the danger of being on the streets/public transport has started to weigh on her mental health in the past year. Of course I don't want to exaggerate - NYC is no Johannesburg or Rio - but I honestly feel things are much safer and also less tense in London. I can't imagine someone shooting me in a train or pushing me onto train tracks.
Ability for non-Citizens to live and work here? UK post-graduate visa >>>> the OPT/H1B lunacy in America
Cosmopolitanism? Only NYC is really cosmopolitan in a real sense, but it has started to wane in the last 5 years or so. These days most of the non-white people you see in NYC are just 1st/2nd gen Americans like me as opposed to legit immigrants or scholars from other countries. London in comparison is a lot more genuinely international
The only argument I will ever accept for a career in America over Europe is comp, which is a subjective consideration. But suffice to say you will get paid significantly more in the US than any other OECD economy.
+1 for trying out Canada or Australia if you want a glimpse of the new world.
OP: My general and honest advice (without knowing more about your circumstances) is that you should not try and gamble on the US masters. I say gamble because the path to staying there after studying is extremely tenuous, and you have little control over it. Even if you found a company willing to sponsor you, the H1B is a lottery system. If you want to try living in America (which I think has its value as a life experience), then I would try to do a secondment there after you secure a job in London.
Hey, I really appreciate your first-hand experience and sharing it also.
I only heard from some of my friends (who are of color) that they really enjoy life in the US more than Europe.
My other, local friends frequently have horrible attitudes towards immigrants and are very vocal about it too. I listened to their comments for a few years now and I get annoyed by it, but there is little I personally can do to change their views.
I have never heard such an attitude from any of my American friends, they are based in NYC, Dallas or California.
The comments I hear or scenarios I have witnessed myself were:
- no admission for an Indian friend of mine in a London club, the bouncer just said "No Asians tonight fellas" and that was it
- literally all of my female friends have their inside jokes when minorities hit on them on dating apps, they get really nasty and racist about it. Instead of just saying that they are not into them, they make it a thing to report their profiles and complain about them
- another friend who was born and raised near Essen (place in Germany) is a super-intelligent guy who worked hard his entire life. Do you think he can get a decent apartment as a tenant in most upmarket neighborhoods in German towns? From a private landlord - Not really!
- I have personally seen that CVs submitted to some of our teams were "thrown out" because of a Muslim sounding name. They used coded language for it and don't actually say that. This is a reality, especially for client-facing roles.
- We went to a football match with a mixed group, it was very common to hear a drunken racist slur aimed at our friends who aren't white. And I mean very common. Alcohol isn't an excuse for this, this is how people are.
Should I go on? Europe isn't some liberal place where everyone is accepted and treated fairly.
For clarification, when I say Asian (UK English), I mean from the Indian subcontinent. Just clarifying because Asian in the US excludes Indian.
Europe =/= UK =/= London
The UK (and the anglosphere in general) is much better at integrating immigrants and minorities than continental Europe. Doubly true for London.
I think this is a pretty important distinction to make.
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