US Undergraduate University Tier Rankings 2023 - Backed by Data
DO NOT MS IMMEDIATELY. Read through everything thoroughly and ask yourself seriously if you would choose ANY school in a lower tier. Open to feedback- please be as granular or broad with arguments, and feel free to argue specific examples (e.g., T3 Cornell is worse than Tier 3.5 Williams, etc.)
Tier 1 - Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Wharton, Stanford
Tier 2 - MIT, UChicago, Dartmouth, Columbia, UPenn CAS, Duke, NYU Stern
Tier 3 - Cornell, Brown
Tier 3.5 - Williams, Amherst, Georgetown, Michigan, Northwestern
Tier 4 - UC Berkeley, Notre Dame
Tier 4.5 - UVA, WashU, Emory, USC, UT Austin
Tier 5 - Vanderbilt, UCLA, Rice, UNC KF, Middlebury
Tier 6 - Johns Hopkins, IU Kelley, Carnegie Mellon, BC, BYU, SMU, NESCAC
Made Tiers 3.5 and 4.5 because the schools in 3 & 4 are just a hair ahead of the tiers below. Within each tier, there is no material difference between selecting one or the other. It would be delusional to take any school in a lower tier if only considering IB recruiting. This list accounts for PER CAPITA placements and STUDENT BODY INTEREST in IB.
Notes: (i) IU Kelley IBW can arguably go to tier 5, but no higher. (ii) NYU Stern could be moved to Tier 3. (iii) UT Austin is most certainly on par with schools like UVA and Emory, even in non-TX offices, and is trending to reach UMich territory. (iv) Northwestern can be argued for Tier 4
Will be updating this list in accordance with any well-though rationales in the comments. Please keep civil.
bro just do your JOB lol
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Funny you think 99% of Wharton even wants to do IB. Congrats on Kelley
Valid to be honest… I would put CMC at t6 cause of their KKR pipeline and good WC/LA connections, and Bowdoin=Midd at t5 imo (traditionally midd is better but I think Bowdoin is investing a lot into finance career dev). I think people overestimate the differences between tiers (especially tiers 3-4 and 5-6) but great list.
Fair points, esp. about CMC T6. Disagree about Bowdoin = Middlebury. Probably would keep Bowdoin at T6 w/ NESCACs. Obv one of the better NESCAC's, and probably not all NESCAC's fall under T6. However, I actually highly disagree about your points about "overestimating the difference between tiers." I think the difference b/w 5 and 6 is fairly drastic, with the latter bordering on non-target whereas the former are all recognizably prestigious schools. There's most definitely a difference between T3 and T4.5, but you could maybe argue that being "top dog" and really excelling in the academic environment of a T4.5 would set you up better than slipping through the cracks at Cornell. So that's where school "fit" comes into play. If you get depressed at Ithaca freshman year and wind up w/ 3.0 GPA, you might as well have just taken the scholarship money from Emory/USC and enjoyed the nicer weather and vibrant social scene.
I get what you are saying, but, for example, consider JHU vs UT Austin (4.5 v 6). UT has a 29% acceptance rate Vs JHUs 7.5% acceptance rate… JHU is ranked the 7th best university in the country, while UT is around T40. Besides the alumni at UT and the business school, JHU has a much better name, better prestige, generally smarter peers, better professors, is better funded, etc. I know much of JHUs prestige is around pre-med, but their econ is no slouch either. Personally, I would take it in a heartbeat over UT, just because I feel the quality of education would be much better than a huge, less selective state school like UT. No shade at UT- it's still a great school and hard to get into, just not the same rigor as JHU. Similar arguments can be made with Bowdoin (8% accept rate), Pomona (7%), etc. Yet, just because UT has lots of finance alums it is rated 2 tiers higher, which is understandable, but does not really show the "caliber" of the school in my opinion.
Furthermore, in terms of higher tier differences (ex Williams and Chicago), there is a lot of debate between these two schools even though they are 1.5 “tiers” apart. - ex https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/school/lacs-uchicago-uva-for-ug#c…
Just use the Peak Frameworks list. End of story problem solved.
Georgetown, ND, and UVA are probably higher. Not sure I’d put Duke and NU that high too
If student body interest is considered than John’s Hopkins should be higher. It’s probably 10x easier to break in from JHU than IU or SMU lol
Georgetown should be tier 2. Placement is insane despite most kids shooting primarily for politics, law, medicine.
How is Georgetown lower than Cornell and Brown? You realize it's a top 3 finance program in the country right? Gtown could make a strong case for T2 frankly
Holy fuck, ain’t no way people are just letting this slide.
Saying Georgetown belongs in T2 with MIT, Columbia, Penn, UChicago and Duke is wild. This is like someone from Brown/Cornell saying they’re HYP level.
There’s school pride and then there’s just straight delusion. Georgetown is a solid school with strong placement but c’mon.
Georgeotwn is Tier 2 easy, are you kidding me? It's insane that you put Gtown below Brown
I wonder where this guy went to school
Its not
What is this up with this boards love affair with the NESCAC?
Williams and Amherst are outstanding schools but outside of those two schools I don’t get it. All of those colleges are located in tiny opioid/pill mill riddled towns that post menopausal lesbians vacation in during the fall alongside their twelve cats. Being 18-22 in those places sounds like hell unless you’re addicted to heroin.
Unlike, Williams and Amherst most of these schools are completely homogeneous as well. Everyone I know who goes to these schools are middle class people that went to prep schools from MA, CT, or NY but couldn’t get into a top school or places like BC and thought they were above going to a state school. I just don’t get how you can call these other schools prestigious when the only group that wants to attend them are preppy kids from New England. Nobody anywhere in the US or the rest of the world wants to live in places like Waterville, Maine or Clinton, NY. People need to get over themselves with this prestige nonsense.
Why anyone would take a non Williams or Amherst NESCAC grad over a UNC, Florida, UCSB, Wisconsin, Washington, etc. grad is beyond me. You have to have a screw loose somewhere or lack common sense to opt into living in rural New England or the Berkshires in your late teens and early twenties. I wouldn’t even want to go to prison in any of those places.
A. LAC people have a chip on their shoulder cause they go to great schools w sub-10% acceptance rates and nobody knows about them.
B. LACs are slept on to be honest and many of them are definitely not in some buttfuck town. All of the Claremont schools, for example, are just outside of LA in a great neighborhood. Brunswick (Bowdoin) is a super nice town if your into nature / that stuff and the food is great, yeah it's not a party school where you can get laid by a 5/10 white chick every night, but it's not for people who want that- it's for people who want a small & close community. Even Midd, which is in the middle of nowhere, has its own ski mountain and a nice party scene. Some people want to be in nature, just cause you don't want to be in the Berkshires doesn't mean others don't… Funny thing is that out of all the NESCACS Williams is in the worst location just cause of how depressed the area is, with Amherst not falling that far behind.
C. What you said about people not getting into good schools and going to LACs is just not true… other than HYPSWM people choose LACs all the time over every other school out there. Also, Bowdoin, Pomona, Midd, and CMC all have similar acceptance rates to Amherst/Williams. It's not like A/W are in a completely different league (a few decades ago, yea, not so much anymore)
D. The alumni pull for each other like it's nobody's business, and although the network isn't as wide, it's much stronger for the connections that do exist.
I agree some Nescacs like conn college aren't great, but Bowdoin, Midd, Hamilton are all very good and place well.
Duke is too high, Georgetown is too low
You claim that this is “with data,” but you provide no info on how you collect/measure data and you somehow measure “student interest in IB,” which is virtually impossible to measure without sending out surveys to students at the schools. Per capita placement is also a problem. Per what capita? Total undergrad population? B-School population?
It seems to me that this is just another bullshit list without any quality data behind it. Congrats on generating some click bait.