How were S&T intern return rates at GS/MS/JPM?
Anyone know? Curious, since it was such a good year for capital markets, and wondering if return rates where higher than they have been in the past.
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~50% for GS
Really? That's almost shocking. They had unbelievable spring. Can't believe disparity between IB offers at BBs and S&T.
50% is not unusual for GS S&T.
Source: friend who summered there in 2018.
CS was around 55%
yea its brutal in other BBs as well, along with other global banks like BNP
You have to remember that S&T's were by far the most disadvantaged interns due to the virtual format. In IB, you can still get people to do modelling/powerpoints etc., but you simply need to be interacting with someone day to day to know if you want them on your trading desk. S&T interns do almost no useful work anyway - the whole point of the internship is to get to know them and see if they are the kind of people who would function well on a dynamic trading floor.
Then in addition to that: - Few people were leaving due to slow job market - It was proven that they can handle higher trading volumes with the same level of staff - It showed their electronic trading systems could handle volatile periods / crises which accelerates the push towards automation. - They know this boom in revenue from Corona volatility won't last forever
The above all makes sense. But I wonder if some interns feel misled, like they were confident based on feedback they were coming back, which discouraged them from applying to other places during the summer for FT positions. And now they're kind of screwed.
Fair but that’s on them. If you’re not sharp enough to hedge your bets wrt recruiting, probably don’t have a place in the business...When interns ask me in private how they should recruit for FT and tell me they are worried about not getting a return I directly tell them to apply to everywhere else and line other interviews/offers up...interns are effectively contract workers
Yes, but I think some interns are concerned that -- if word gets out to their SA firm that they're recruiting FT elsewhere during the summer -- that might torpedo their chances with their SA firm.
There is a lot of information being thrown around how S&T hiring and advancement works and I thought it would be helpful to explain how it really works. I have worked at 3 BBs in 15yr in S&T so I have seen this a couple of places.
Interns- This is where firms really differ, some firms try to hire a lot of interns to create some competition for getting full time hires others elect to shoot for higher offer rates by only hiring enough based on where they think analyst needs will be when that class starts full time. Also interns that you don't offer full time are a great way to get people in your database and get experience with them should there be a need for a lateral hire. In terms of desk rotations most firms try to push kids to the desks they think will need an analyst. All of this is a pretty in-exact since and things change fast so you really never know what is going to happen from one year to the next.
Analysts- For firms that are non-rotational desks will get people more based on either the growth of a business, (A business is doing really well and has a good analyst, that analyst will take on some workload (smaller trading book or smaller account client coverage) from everyone on the desk which creates the need for a new analyst to the grunt work the new associate no longer has time to do). The other thing that generates need for analysts is layoffs/turnover on a desk. If a desk decides to lay-off a couple of more senior people the junior people on the desk get bumped up and they need to hire a new analyst. There will also be turnover at the analyst level as kids realize they don't like the job and want something different which will create a need for analysts but it is not going to be the huge driver of turnover like in banking.
Associate and beyond- At the end of an analyst contract kids fall into one of 3 buckets.
1. Don't like the job and will be moving on/people who don't perform. These people generally figure that out well before the contract is up so they usually have something lined up or will leave before the end of the contract.
2. People who have performed well and want to stay but there is nowhere to put them- Different firms have different views on this, sometimes a firm will promote someone to associate but they still have no direct P&L responsibility or client coverage. In essence getting paid more to do the same job. Some firms are ok with this to keep continuity on a desk that is doing well but not growing enough to actually need a new analyst. Other firms will tell these people to move on or stick them somewhere else in the firm, this can be good thing as sometimes moving to another area/desk as a new associate can really jump start a career. If you are good they will generally find a place for you has been my experience, but sometimes good people get let go and have to figure out what is next.
3. People who perform well and their is a natural need on the desk- Congrats you are now an associate with a trading book or client coverage in a product you already know and have some relationships in.
VP+- This is where it becomes a crapshoot/political b/c titles mean very little in S&T in terms of the day to day, either you have a trading book/direct client coverage or you do not. So what an associate/VP/Director/MD is pretty much the same when it comes to the day to day the only thing that varies can be the size of the clients and the amount of risk you can take. A newly minted associate in S&T is doing the same basic job as an MD just on a different scale. Once you make associate if you perform and the business does well you get promoted to the next level and don't really have to be worried about losing your job b/c their is "not room" for you at the next level. You can get laid off as part of cost cutting, but that applies to everybody. You will also see people leave at the associate level as that 5-7 years of work experience is when people start to go to business school and its an easy exit for people who take a little longer to realize that they are not interested in the work or want to try something different.
What this means for anyone in S&T- You are ALWAYS networking and talking with headhunters. You never know when you will need to be looking for your next job and maintaining relationships and knowing what different firms are doing is going to key to having a long career in S&T.