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Oil major assuming its BP or Conoco. Best to get the experience, your 30 year old self with thank you
Macquarie is good for sure, great physical shop with assets and they make money and pay well
No Citi, you wont learn anything tangible or transferable and prolly be out of a job in a few years
Great insight, thanks!
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It's going to depend a lot on what you like and your skill set. Banks will pay better upfront, and Macq is awesome. Citi is good for some of the more "complicated" products - derivs, structured deals, those sorts of things. If you legit see yourself as a more technical person, I think that's a better fit. If you are less technical, and want to do more with leveraging relationships, majors are better.
Go to the major. Any major is going to be a better place to start a career in energy (and stay in energy) than a bank imo. Citi v Mac comes down to which commod; Citi is stronger in power, Mac is oil and natty. TBH I haven't heard great things from ppl who work or worked there. This has been pointed out by others on this blog (credit to whoever): you can go from a major -> a bank, you cannot go the other way around.
Understand that a major would provide more training and operational understanding at the start of a career, but interested in what negative things you might have heard regarding citi or macq? I have really only heard good things about their energy teams, similar to the above comments.
Both bank's energy teams are good in the sense of their market position (for certain commods); they'll take down different interesting structures for sure. Actually working there, different story.
At Mac you may see a lot w/in your group but things can get pretty silo'd and it could be very hard to move around internally/advance. Big difference btwn the old Cargill biz (Mac Commodities) vs legacy bank side (Mac Energy). Big difference btwn natty vs crude/products.
Citi pretty big up and out type of joint. Again highly dependent based on commodity.
Straight up, bank culture is very different than commodity trading culture at either bank it's going to be the banking side that dominates. A lot of banks that run energy desks do so as a means of providing service to their IB clients--we will advise your merger and do your credit/commodity biz. Learning and development at banks is also highly dependent vs. majors have defined pipelines for moving talent internally. If you're early in your career go w/ where you can learn and grow into new roles/positions/etc. that is a lot easier at a major vs a bank.
I'd put the knowledge of a 2-3 year analyst from a oil major up against any VP/Director at a bank who came up through the ranks. Knowledge of the physical market just doesn't happen when you come up through an S&T program
Do you think the 3 year mark would be a good opportunity to jump to a bank if there isn’t a clear path to trading at the major?
I’m concerned about the lack of upside at the major later on in my career if I’m stuck in logistics
This is a real concern, but not everyone at the bank becomes a trader too.
that is the best position to be in after 3 years.... leaving a major to work logistics at any trading house is a GREAT career
I think its all luck of the draw after 2-3 years. I think if you started out trading/scheduling physical at a big shop you would find the rules and onerous regulations at banks cumbersome and not worth the incremental amount of $$ vs. your exectations. Plus at banks you are really limited to financial trading which is tough
Both good options. Any chance can provide more info? What commodity which of citi/macq.
These days the “oil majors” have designated new grad/trainee programs so offcycle hires get a bit stuck. But different commodities/different desks differ.
Not sure of the commodity yet but it’s with macq energy (not heritage cargill)/ citi. For the major, it’s not a trading development program, sounds logistics/ supply chain oriented with the hopes to network into trading.
MacQ is better option. BTW MacQ is not really bank they are full merchant and run some divisons like so.
detail here being missed is that you are not on the TDP. Big difference between being a scheduler and being on the TDP...different talent pools and one is much more competitive than the other.
if it had been TDP vs bank I’d say TDP for sure, but you’re much farther away from a trading seat than a TDP would be. TDPs have a shot at trading down the line, you would need a shot at having a shot at trading...doable but adds risk-sure there are plenty of guys ahead of you looking to internally transfer into the TDP as well.
The TDP is the best place to start an energy career, full stop. I’ve scoured WSO for 6+ years...This forum is an echo-chamber...just like there is a notion you need to do 2 years in IB to make it on the buyside, there’s a notion that you absolutely need to come from BP to make it in commods. Plenty of very succesful commods traders who come from banks (now working at funds or trade houses).
Regarding the regulation/compliance comment above - that is a moot point, the majors face the same regulatory scrutiny as the banks nowadays...
Consider this as well - two years into your scheduling gig staring 10 hours a day at the transco EBB at BritishConocco, you realise you really have no interest in trading or energy. Well good luck leaving the industry with that experience on your resume. 2 years as an FO analyst at Citi is much more marketable (transfer internally to another div or product, apply to b-school, etc).
The above is my attempt at offering a different Perspective and just my 2c
Good comments.
Best bet is to get into a S&T program and get into orig/structuring/sales. Take no risk, work 8-5pm and still get paid 300k+ after 3-4 years.
Is this realistic comp expectations? Seems like twice what I would think
well VP base salary is $220k-ish
those days are long gone
Why?
Depends on the commodity. Gas scheduling vs Crude Scheduling is a different. I would take a crude scheduling job over a desk analyst one, but a desk analyst job over a gas scheduling one. Mac is the best place to work, but they have little to no turnover. Citi is good in Power, and there is a normal amount of turnover which gives young guys opportunities.
Like another poster said, lots of Ex-Citi guys who are at funds now.
major all day..... its not even a question
major for power though?
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