Where are all the S&T monkeys?
Been on WSO for a while now and I just realized that everyone on this site is either aiming for IB or working in IB. Made me ask: Do many college kids aim for S&T (seems like everyone ik is aiming for IB) and how's the S&T industry holding up nowadays?
I've been pretty hesitant when it comes to S&T a career. The nature of the industry is changing, maybe slowly, but it is. I spoke to someone at GS securities, which has been struggling lately, who told me they're seeing lower head count, looking for kids who know coding languages, etc. But I still feel like those are things most can adapt to. S&T is still a GREAT paycheck out of school. But what happens 3-4 years down the road. Does headcount get even smaller? Does it turn into a primarily coding role? What transferable skills do you legitimately have when your looking for a new job? When do you start learning to take risk? Too many questions for me to dive in head first. Still a nice job out of college, but it looks a bit cloudy to me in the long run and idk how I feel about that.
Dang that sucks. Pre-crisis, didn't people want to be bank prop traders pulling .... but now regulations kicked in. And technological innovation is shaking things up too. I'm curious to know more about S&T because it is responsible for a large portion of employment opportunities in finance......
There are a bunch of asset classes that cannot and will not be automated and do not require any programming
What roles in S&T are most susceptible for automation? Also, where do you see S&T in the near future and how are the roles in S&T changing?
I've heard this many times before - it seems that traders are the biggest believers in the human element required for trading. Can you be a bit more specific about the desks that require physical traders? I've read descriptions of different desks before but nothing that made me think they were going to be permanently human-exclusive. Only that some were less "quanty" than others.
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how so, if you don't mind me asking?
hi
Yeah I've noticed that as well. Truth is S&T is drifting from what traditional finance roles look like. One of my majors is Computer Science so I'm looking at S&T as my main interest, none in IB. The role just suits my interests more than IB, but I'm obviously looking to expand on that reasoning for next summer's recruiting. PM me if you're interested in talking about S&T recruiting a bit more, my friends literally call me a 'nerd' for pursuing S&T over IB.
I've found that most Computer Science majors have almost no interest in finance, and the general Economics/Business majors have no interest in picking up some basic programming skills for an edge in S&T recruitment: Python, R, MATLAB. This site probably doesn't offer an S&T interview guide because to do that they'd probably have to point you in the direction of Python tutorials. Not sure about the contents of the HF interview and how that relates to S&T, could be talking out of my ass here.
Other factors you have probably read a hundred times before is the shrinking headcount, compensation, and technological disruption. I've been to a few information sessions and have done some research and while the future of S&T isn't pretty for work prospects the general consensus is that a few years on an investment bank trading desk will get you a lot of knowledge and you can look for exit opps from there.
What do you mean by "investment bank trading"? Anyways, will PM u more about S&T recruiting! Thanks
Sorry I meant to type out IB trading desks but WSO automatically directs you to a finance definition if you happen to type one out: IBD, GS, BB, etc.
From my general industry knowledge I've come to understand that the opportunities in trading range from "S&T" roles at an investment bank, prop trading at a prop firm, various HF roles, and maybe* a few more in-house roles to manage exposure to price movements in some commodities.
Are BB's going to start up prop desks again, as trump kills the volcker rule? Is this tailwind for S&T?
we'll see..... hopefull?
Treasury desks and centralized risk desk still actively manage risk use bank capital Just need to know where to look
How transferable are S&T skills to prop trading? One of my professors that I had taken a course with, worked in IB then worked in prop trading at a BB, ie merger arbitrage back in the 90's. So if you want to do prop trading, is IB a viable route too? Also, does anyone have any idea what Goldman Sachs investment partner does?
Being in Europe I have what may be a different perspective. This might sound really stupid but S&T in Europe and the US are quite different. Is the sector as a whole a bit wobbly in terms of going forward? yes. Is it probably going to lead to much more technically focused positions in the future? also yes. But i think the EU S&T has a much broader qualitative aspect. Languages are super important here and while the majority of people speak english, what drives and helps initiate relationships on the Sales side is being fluent in other languages. In the US on the otherhand, you just need English so its a really basic requirement and that's why it will give way to much greater emphasis on coding/algo/hard skills in the future. In Europe the same may happen but its also much harder to find someone here who can communicate in English AND French AND German/Italian/Dutch/Spanish etc. What I guess I'm trying to say is that in my opinion it's harder to replace and find good people in S&T on this side of the pond because you really need at least 2 languages to be competitive along with the usual industry knowledge. I could be wrong but I also think this is why, in my experience, recent grads still gravitate to S&T (more so than the US) and the division as a whole is held in higher regard by the buy side than in the US (someone with more experience can hopefully clarify this).
Yea I'd say to some extent it is a more relationship based business in Europe and Asia. If you notice BBs will send newer MDs from NY to London or Hong Kong simply because they are at a point in their career where the job is overwhelmingly more people managing and client facing than sitting on an actual trading desk. It makes sense to have someone based in London/HK closer to prospective/important clients, and it is not hard to head a group based in NY 5 hours timezone difference. Once you get to that level obviously EU citizenship (brexit kinda screws this up) and multiple languages really works to your advantage when you are traveling 6-8 times a year.
Oh well, I know German, English and Polish. Should I learn French to top it up? I am 17, based in the EU.
Interesting! Thanks for providing this perspective! Do you mind sharing what type of work you currently do in S&T?
I do cash equities for a specific EU country, feel free to PM me if you want more info
Yep. The main barrier to entry here in Europe is Language.
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