Which is more intellectually challenging - S&T or IB?
Which do you think is more intellectually challenging/rewarding - S&T or IB? Why?
What’s the general consensus on one over the other?
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Ig it used to swing towards S&T but with increasingly less prop trading and a fuck ton of regulation it's actually pretty ambiguous. The popular video of Anton Kreil destroying IB traders is hilarious
How realistic is this video? Is he just talking about vanilla equities? What about exotics, fixed income derivatives, rates,etc.
Well, plenty of regulation in the exotics as well these days so ig same broad rule applies. At the same time, he is a guy who's no longer a pro trader and now sells trading courses for a living LOL, so take that as u will
That is such a dumb take. I dont know how intellectually challenging is IB since I have never worked in that part of the business but saying S&T is not intellectually simulating proves that you have no idea about S&T either.
well bro, i was reverting Anton Kreill who used to trade at GS (and JPM too i think?). He's notorious for ripping down IB trading. He doesn't say S&T isnt intellectually challenging, he's saying market making isn't intellectually challenging so the best traders escape to HF, prop trading firms or trade their own capital. So the typical undergrad's impression of the pedigree of training they'll receive at a BB trading desk is extremely misguided - the traders (including MDs) left at bank S&T are the shit ones who can't exit to HF or trade their own capital.
(* Again, i'm just quoting Anton, NONE of this is my own saying)
What do u think?
Broadly speaking S&T... specifically speaking it depends. Something like restructuring can be more complex than heavy flow roles/desks in S&T.
It's very desk-dependent but there are some S&T desks out there that are certainly on the more extreme ends of intellectually challenging jobs in finance.
Echo this:
Its really product/desk dependent. You really don't need quantitative mindset/intelligence when it comes to cash equities sales/broker. WOuld be totally different story when it comes to electronic execution lol.
In terms of Fixed Income/exotics trading/structuring I would say you need to have a greater amount of theoretical preparation/academic basis for derivatives which I think the undergraduate finance class can't cover, and understanding PDE is quite important(not a necessary condition though). In this case definitely it is intellectually challenging compared to IBD
What about electronic execution? Just curious
People are far smarter in S&T
Wholeheartedly agree here. People go into S&T because they want to vs people go into IB because they think they have to.
On junior level, generally S&T. Realistically, just like any other S&T question, everything is desk dependent.
IB on the other hand has pretty homogeneous experience. It’s meaningless to discuss without knowing the group.
Wait... building a 300 page slide deck isn't intellectually challenging???
S&T by a mile
I'm mostly piggybacking here, but as most have said, it is very desk/product contingent. Those on lean-ish teams with low-flow will have greater opps to engage with their product in interesting ways———think many equity/credit derivs, exotics, and even some One Delta desks. S&T has both a more decentralized product space and work structure than IB (which is more homogenous) so it begets a degree of dynamism and stimulation and thus a greater likelihood of intellectual enrichment over time.
I did both S&T and IB. Realistically, they can each be equally mind numbing at times. In S&T, you might be mindlessly entering IOIs into a system or booking small trades as they come in. In IB, you might just be endlessly rearranging logos on a deck. It probably comes down to the specific group you’re in. Trading or strategy roles in S&T might be a little more stimulating.
Depends on the desk and markets.
US is pretty vanilla flow today, but Asian and other emerging markets are still pretty 'exotic' even on usually vanilla desks.
One example is the stock loan business in APAC. Very exotic and complicated when it is the most boring thing ever in the US
I have worked in both and the people are generally more intelligent in S&T in my opinion. Very intellectual, quick thinking, etc. There are some guys that I worked with that absolutely blew my mind with their ability to recognize patterns instantly and act on pure instinct. Banking is way more sales-y and I find the people to more of the slick and schmoozy type.
It’s funny the amount of insecure socially awkward people that go into banking because they think it’s what they are supposed to do when it is essentially a business all about sales and building relationships. The analytical work is basically commoditized at this point.
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