1 year after graduation, need life and banking advice
I graduated from a target last year (2017) with a 3.7 GPA + and interned in a real estate banking group at a top BB in my junior to senior summer. I did not get a return offer and couldn't nail down a full time banking gig. To be honest i didn't have my technicals.
I ended up getting a MO/BO role at a struggling BB with $80/85k comp but didn't want that as going from BO to FO is an unlikely move. I honestly was always intrigued by the salespeople in the S&T side, so I decided to take a swing with a sales role at a top tech company. I got promoted from an SDR to an AE for Enterprise Accounts a couple months ago and am definitely in a fortunate position in my current company.
Pay is not as good as banking by a long shot but my hours are definitely better. That being said, I would prefer to work longer to make more $. Maybe its an infatuation with banking or the culture of finance and living in Manhattan (i don't live in NYC anymore), but I do miss how i felt during my summer internship. I also miss being surrounded with grinders and the importance of a career among my peers (I work with a few people who never even did an internship, although my peers within my new promotion are definitely more career driven).
I am considering going back to banking as I don't want to be 30 years old one day and thinking about why DIDN'T I TRY HARDER for banking... I am also considering S&T but I am not sure if that would be a good move but I know the peers would be good.
What are my odds of getting back into banking/S&T?(i recognize Real Estate banking would be the easiest get, but i want my odds for traditional IBD, real estate banking, and S&T)
Moreover, can anyone relate with this type of experience? All in all, I feel like i'm not living up to my full potential and I am lost.
when you didn't get a return offer did you try to recruit for FT at MMs or boutiques?
surely with BB IBD experience you could have swung some interviews right
Yes, I interned within a originations group so the swing to traditional banking wasn't as concrete as real estate. So I did get interviews for real estate gigs but didn't get a spot, and to say the least nor in traditional banking.
Frankly if you couldn't even put in the time to learn simple technicals for interviewing, you'll be miserable 6 months in to a real banking gig. The "grind" seems sexy until you realize you have to actually live it, day after day with no end in sight.
More so ouldn't swing technicals because my internsship was off a s&t internship and i got a origination group. So my technicals were pretty tailored far from traditional banking.
But yes, that's what I'm saying I should have studied more and recruited for smaller banks. I gave up when I had good interviews at MM and still got dinged
Seems to me you have two basic choices:
Continue to excel at your current endeavor. Good corporate sales people actually make quite a bit of money. As you grow with that position you'll learn it's not about grinding and time, but rather results. Actually, you don't want to have to work huge hours because that implies a lot of busy work and that's not how sales works. Hone your skills, be massively effective in client face time scenarios, and increase that as a percentage of your overall activities. You'll work less and make more. That's actually the goal for most people.
Work for a few yrs and get MBA and start over in BB recruiting. You went to a good UG school. Excel at work, get good test scores and you should get in.
Thanks for the response! I definitely agree with the thoughts on sales and that is why I decided to go into it. The drawback I am having is the mental stimulation and the lack of drive among peers.
At this point I don't think it would be worth it for me to go into banking as 27 year old (currently 23). Would you have any insight on MO/BO role and how it can transition into banking? I am thinking about hitting up the hiring manager for my MO role.
Did you plan on being in banking at 27? If so, what's wrong with starting at 27? Or is banking a step to something else? If so, work on the something else.
Bit confused. You knew enough technicals to pass through the interviews unscathed, but when you hit the ground running at your internship, you didn't know enough?
my return offer definitely wasn't based on if i knew technicals.
Will have to do MBA. You are far off from the track to make the switch. And unlike someone off track who can say oh late interest, you were already in finance and blew the chance - that’s a red flag. As you know, most banks hire FTs from own interns, then other interns, then others from graduating class, then someone w relevant experience, etc.
exactly the type of info I want. it seems like banking is a no shot without a MBA at this point. Sidebar, would have a MO/BO role role after graduation lead me to a banking gig?
Probably not. We hired couple of them 4 years back but that’s because back then suddenly expanded classes, enforced Saturdays off etc. and they worked for 2 years in MO/BO.
Now, classes are actually shrinking and the size mismatch isn’t there
Don’t let people tell you “MBA is the only way”. If you want to be an IB associate at Morgan Stanley, yeah MBA is your only hope. But there are only a handful of career moves for people with 1-2 years of experience that are literally impossible. Some are only possible if you have a rich uncle, well-connected mentor, or get incredibly lucky but they’re possible nonetheless.
Getting a banking gig after a years worth of relevant experience has been done plenty of times (personally know someone who has done it and there are threads of people on here who have done it). But it won’t be at a BB/EB and it probably won’t be in NYC. Had you taken the middle office job at the BB you would likely have had a better shot but it’s not like it’s game over and MBA is your only option.
The main problem is I’m not sure your sales role is very relevant to any finance / real estate analyst jobs. If you wanted to get back into real estate lending, that would be easier than banking. But again - probably not going to get into Goldman’s real estate debt arm. I’d be careful with the S&T sales path. Lots of analysts in those roles are doing the MBA -> out of S&T or lateraling to capital markets / IB within their bank. Search around for threads about S&T or PM me for more info on why this is the case.
Point is there are plenty of options if you pick a path you’re highly interested in, network with people in that field, and do your homework on the technical skills required for analysts in that field.
The other great thing about situations like this is it’s a chance to connect with alumni / family friends in a field you’re interested in. Set up an informational interview, and just ask them for advice - don’t try to fish for interviews/referrals. I’ve had a couple professional mentors come out of calls just like this.
I’m rambling now but main takeaways: 1) Pick something and roll with it 2) Get on the phone with people and keep in touch with them 3) Aggressively study for the role you choose to pursue (modeling courses, reading news/books, certifications)
Thanks for giving some positives of my situation - you are right Enterprise Sales is pretty far removed from finance / real estate - the only chance i can even get someone to listen to my story is definitely through alumni/close network. I will PM you also regarding the S&T portion.
I am not sure if everyone agrees with this, but it's my understanding tech sales > S&T sales (and of course i could be very wrong). Only problem with tech sales for me is that peer set, drive, and mental stimulation.
This is wrong. FI sales > tech sales. A FI salesman with even a shoddy book pulls $250k. If you’re actually half way decent, and have a well developed book (Mix of HF’s, AM’s, Mutuals, Insurance, Banks, etc.) you’ll do $500k no problem. The top bond salesman in my group did 750k-1MM last year (Not at a BB, so salesman get flat 35% on primary and 45% on secondary, you won’t get this rate at a BB).
Enterprise Sales, 250K - 1MM is not unheard of, and the lifestyle is better than banking.
I will say, once you are in sales, you are in sales. If you want to get out of sales, you will have to do a MBA.
If you want to stay in sales, CRE brokerage/mortgage lending may be good for you.
completely agree with the first statement. Honest question, what's your background that you are saying if i want to go get out of sales that I'd have to get an mba? Is it a gut feel or are you talking from peer experience, etc.?
Why didn't you receive a return offer to the BB after your internship? If you want to return to finance you're going to need to have this aspect of your story nailed down.
A sales desk in S&T would be an option but you're going to need to show grit. Lateral hires into sales desks all have some form of marketable experience when they are interviewing.. but the ones who have shown that they are able to be sociable while also having a history of grinding and an ability to put in long hours are the ones that succeed -- even if the job itself doesn't demand extremely long hours. Grit is a trait that is respected heavily in lateral hires from my experience.
thanks for the response! will look into this more
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