3.9 GPA from an Ivy League school in a useless major. What are my options?
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+233 | My chaotic IB journey | 27 | 5h | |
+211 | MS M&A vs GS HC | 48 | 13h | |
+176 | Ending My Life if I don't get an SA 2025 Offer | 63 | 21h | |
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+19 | Too late to be Analyst 1 with 5 years of experience? | 16 | 2d |
Career Resources
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Did you actually read the post? The following quote is literally from the OP:
"...but I don't have the quantitative background to have a realistic chance [for MFin programs]."
Yeah but you also said you're reasonably confident you could pick it back up again (having only taken basic calc) as if that would help
No he doesn't. Shut up.
I did mispeak. I was confused. I agree with you, sorry. It was my fault, I was mistakenly thinking of masters in financial engineering I had abbreviation wrong my fault totally
I don't think you're in a bad spot. First, you have a good background for top MBAs. Second, major doesn't matter, just GPA and school which you have checked.
What kind of position should I pursue if I wanted to work toward an MBA, given my background and current situation?
I mean it's not your major that's bad. Schwarzman studied sociology himself. What gets you is no work experience and/or if you're from a second tier Ivy (no offense Cornell/Dartmouth kids). Although the latter you can probably work with, it's the former that's bad. Did you somehow manage to graduate without doing any substantial internships?
I think your best bet is to work toward an MBA. They take wishy washy nontraditional candidates. from there you could do a career switch.
I did a prestigious internship completely unrelated to IB/Finance. What kind of position should I pursue if I wanted to work toward an MBA, given my background and current situation?
You can get into any MFin program in the country. If I were you, I wouldn't settle for anything less than MIT. Math is not a problem and MFin's aren't hard. Just do well on your GMAT and you'll be fine.
I appreciate the encouraging words.
To be honest with you, the only MFin programs that appeal to me are the ones at MIT and Princeton, but given the fact that I took no math classes in college, I'm not sure if I have any realistic chance.
I was considering the MMS at Duke and the MSMS at Northwestern, and to a lesser extent, Johns Hopkins (MFin). Are there any other programs that I could consider? Oh, and I'm also strongly considering consulting.
I just told you that you have a realistic chance. You have a very realistic chance depending on how well you do on the GMAT. I went into a relatively quantitative program with extremely limited math skills (pre calc and intro to calc). Finance isn't that quantitative, unless you're going into financial engineering.
Those programs aren't worth your time. To be clear, putting that on your resume will hurt you. It will diminish your the quality of your resume.
No. MIT should be your target. Princeton is effectively a PhD program so you likely won't get in. MIT/Vandy and nothing else (though Vandy is an extreme safety here).
are nonprofit programs like TFA and Peace Corps an option? Do that, then consulting or B school
Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, I'm not eligible to apply. Are there any other comparable options?
This is embarrassing. You got a 3.9 from an Ivy. You should be able to figure something out.
Try this in no particular order: google some stuff, apply to some stuff, call your buddy from club lax and pretend to ask for advice...
Tbh, I am embarrassed. I missed OCR and I'm in a difficult situation. Just trying to work it out and make the best of it.
Your logic for avoiding law school was sound.
Your liberal arts degree is not a handicap. The real handicap for a career in finance will be the fact that you're off the increasingly dogmatic recruiting timeline.
It's gotten absurd. Right now in August 2017 there are kids who start junior year at the end of the month sweating over their applications and interview status for 2018 summer analyst roles. That is wild to me.
You need to decide which is more attractive to you: a slower start to your career but comparatively better odds for the elite job trajectory Or a quicker start but an effectively guaranteed closed door at the most prestigious names.
If you're okay with the latter, you simply need to start interviewing. You would be surprised how many places will take first-round phone screen for a kid with a 3.9 from an Ivy League school. For both banking and consulting these will be the boutique or mid-sized places whose total hiring needs aren't so bulky that they're forced to rely on a rigid and regimented recruiting system like a Goldman Sachs or Barclays does.
I was pretty close with a kid I interned with in college who had a complete change of heart after going through a grueling summer program. He was from a HYP school, had grades dramatically worse than yours, and simply smiled-and-dialed his way to a boutique consulting firm in New York. The total team size is below 20, comp is probably 30% worse than MBB, and the MBA prospects aren't attractive, but the hours are consistently 50-70/week and you can simply put time in and expect to be promoted routinely (albeit slightly slower than at the big shops).
There was a guy from my school who crapped out during summer recruiting. I was actually surprised, because he was one of the smarter guys I knew out of the whole school, maintained solid grades, and was as technically sound (probably more, actually) than I was. He wound up at a real boutique.
It wasn't a trash firm; the founders were all guys with an impeccable academic pedigree and professional resume (group head at bulge bracket banks decades earlier, board member at glitzy New York philanthropic or arts organizations; you got the sense that they either lost out in or hated the politics that are inescapable in the big firms and set up shop on their own) so his dealflow was solid, it just didn't have the volume or scope as if he was at a BB or EB.
About 9 months in he was able to lateral over to a GS/MS/JPM and from there moved to a megafund; he had no analyst 'reset' and was able to recruit during his second year for a same-year start. His case is a real anomaly; I shared it to illustrate that he plugged in as quickly as he could and worked on improving the caliber of firm he was at once he had a foot in the door in the industry.
If you're more set on the former, you need to look for something that will allow you to re-recruit as an analyst. This would be either another academic degree or a fellowship of some kind.
For the academic route, look at the one or two-year master's programs. Easily identifiable options are the Duke MMS and all the one-year MSF programs. @TNA" founded and runs msfhq.com, check that out as a resource.
You have a bit of an unfortunate element to deal with in that the caliber of your undergraduate institution means that if your next school was too far away in terms of pedigree, your resume would look really lopsided and people would cotton on in a hurry to what your real situation is: a last-minute career switch and ensuing scramble to figure out next steps.
Options off the top of my head that wouldn't fall into this scenario: Duke, MIT MFin, Princeton MFin, and Columbia (has the MSFE [out of IEOR], MAFN, or MSFE [out of CBS]). Princeton probably isn't a fit for you, the program is notoriously quantitative and it's doubtful you'd get in: they look for rigorous prior academics and their program is unique in that most people are coming in with meaningful work experience. It's a self-selective thing and people often use it in lieu of an MBA because they're coming from and hoping to progress in fields where an MBA is completely useless. IlliniProgrammer could speak more on this.
Don't be afraid to look abroad as well. Americans often ignore the fantastic programs at Oxbridge. Both Cambridge and Oxford offer a number of fantastic one-year (they call them 'terminal', as in you can apply directly and it's not something earned progressing en route for a PhD) degrees.
You could find legitimately any program interesting to you and write a coherent personal statement as to why you are a compelling applicant and enjoy decent success at Oxbridge. Keep in mind that UK universities are very different than US ones in terms of the application.
They are focused solely on your suitability for the academic course you are applying for. Don't waste words writing about extenuating circumstances, personal difficulties, your background, diversity, or anything. They want you to explain in the statement why you want to study what you're applying for. The admission decision is made directly by the department, not a dedicated ad-com like we're used to, so you're assessed by the very people you want to study under.
They really love grades and they really love brand-name institutions. You have a 3.9 at an Ivy. You could pick anything related to a social science and will very likely get in.
Another great option is the bucket of master's programs Judge Business School (Cambridge) offers. They have an MPhil for people exactly like you who've never studied business before (it's similar to the Duke MMS). They also have an MPhil in Innovation, and with the emphasis on the qualitative research methodology, you could probably write a convincing story weaving your sociology degree to answer the 'why' question.
Better still is how much Americans love prestigious and recognizable names. With this route you're suddenly the Ivy plus Oxbridge kid who wants to be an analyst in the M&A group. People will trip over themselves to interview you. (Or, if you want to go into consulting, McKinsey will eat you up because you're even more marketable for international staffings.)
The application deadlines are all coming up in the next few months; you're recent enough out of school where it should be very easy to secure stellar recommendations from professors who haven't forgotten you (and hopefully liked you).
Amusingly, since the recruiting cycle has moved as early as it has, you can also be applying now for an internship for summer 2018 since as a class of 2019 student you'll have that summer free. You went to a target school, so it shouldn't be hard at all to find or get the contact info for the lead campus recruiter (here you actually want an HR person, not the senior banker).
Explain to them that you're applying to graduate schools and need to fill your intervening summer; it happens more frequently than you'd think. You need them to know this before you submit your application, otherwise it gets filtered out with a 'why the hell is someone done with school applying to be a summer'.
This has gotten really long so I'll be brief with the other fork under this second option, which would be something like Fulbright or TFA where you get a really shiny brand on your resume that all the 'prestige' employers will immediately recognize and be okay with hiring you out of.
I know three people (one Fulbright, two TFA) who struck out of recruiting in one way or another and all wound up with very elite jobs once they got the fellowship on their resume. One summered at a mid-tier BB and failed to get a return offer, did TFA, and got into GS IBD as an analyst afterward. Another completely failed in summer recruiting, did the Fulbright, and went to MBB. The third failed in summer recruiting, went to TFA, and then to MBB.
So, in summary, if I add up the facts of your circumstance, I see a strongly compelling route where you can:
Even if you don't go the Oxbridge route, there are numerous ways to 'fix' this. Keep your chin up and remember that you can always find a way to get what you want. The great news here is that you have a stellar academic profile so far, so as long as you're willing to be a bit patient, there is zero reason why you can't enjoy equally stellar career placement.
I got interrupted in the middle of writing (speaking, actually, since I use a voice-to-text protocol) this, so all the replies you (theanalyst0127) made in the previous three hours I missed.
Since TFA isn't an option for you (I'm not too familiar with it but at surface level I'm assuming you aren't a US citizen and that doesn't work for them), this got a whole simpler in my mind.
Consider the Oxbridge route. Bonus points if your "prestigious internship completely unrelated to IB/Finance" is somehow related to social sciences and can support your personal statement at Oxbridge.
@APAE gives great advice. also if you're interested in Asia - check out Schwartzmann Scholars. fully funded program + great career placement
Wow, I can't thank you enough for this!! I really appreciate you taking the time to give me such detailed advice. I will definitely explore all of the options that you've mentioned here.
I'm still carefully reading your post over and over again to make sure that I'm absorbing everything! Thanks so much!
To be honest, I'm sure if you tried hard enough. You'd be able to land something. 3.9 from an Ivy even majoring in Sociology is not a weak profile.
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