Anyone seen Star Wars The Last Jedi? How was your experience?
Love it or hate it? When are you going to see it?
I went to see it on Friday and I personally loved it! Please share your thoughts here!
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Haven't seen it yet, but it's 93% positive on rottentomatoes yet the internet nerds are enraged by it and say it's the worst ever. Don't know what to expect.
I didn't like it because:
It felt like it was very relationship character orientated. Luke/Rey/Kylo Ren. Way too much on Luke for me.
I think it lacked a real awesome battle scene, the last scene wasn't that good and interesting.
There was a lot of romance between characters which started to piss me off towards the end.
this, especially the kiss between Fin and whoever the fuck the chicks name is...really? they just met and they don't even look good together!
I've heard mixed things. Half my friends loved it and the other half couldn't stand it. Hardcore star wars fans on both sides.
There were way too many plotholes in TLJ
Quick observations (and no spoilers, don't worry).
Diversity. You could see immediately how zeitgest-y the production was. One of the most prominent minor characters was a female general of the Rebellion who was really vocal and 'bossy'. Fin is black. Another character who was effectively a major figure in the second half of the film was an Asian female. All throughout the film there were quick shots of various Rebellion characters (pilots, basic soldiers, mechanics) and galaxy citizens who were black, Hispanic, Asian, and East Asian.
What I'm saying is that the social flavors of the year like 'strong women' and 'inclusion' and all their similar themes showed up in the film. I heard some grousing both offline as I left the theater and online from hardcore fans who I presume felt that a futuristic intergalactic society would be more homogeneous than that.
Length. It was a long film (2:33). It felt frenetic at times, like they were rushing to include as many different story elements as possible to keep you at a heightened state of emotion or engagement for as long as they could. As a contrast I think of any of the Lord of the Rings films, which went past three hours but did it magnificently with rich storytelling rather than an endorphin rush.
Cinematography. There were some breathtaking visual elements to the film that made me really appreciate a) that a major studio was spending major dollars on producing this in 2017 and b) that I was watching it in IMAX 3D.
Easy punches. There were some real 'gimme' moments where R2D2 or C3PO said or did something where you wanted to roll your eyes because it was too transparent how the script and director were pandering to a low common denominator for a predictable lay-up.
All in all I say it's worth the ticket price, if for nothing other than so you can talk about it with other people. It isn't a bad experience, it just might feel less like 'Star Wars' if you're an extreme fanboy.
I would have a hard time explaining my thoughts in a better way. But simply the light speed scene at the end made it worth it; truly beautiful piece of cinematography.
Lightspeed scene is literally the only redeeming quality of this movie.
Perfectly put. Couldn't have summarized it any better myself.
I saw this movie two days ago and I loved it. I had goosebumps the entire time... Cannot wait until Star Wars Episode 9 comes out.
They're making movies too fast these days. Goldie can't keep up. I fell off after Iron Man 2.
I can't believe they killed Admiral Ackbar :(
Yep that was sad
One of my favorite Star Wars characters and they killed him off so unceremoniously lol
but hey, at least Leia can magically fly through the vacuum of space!
Here’s where it ranks in the 8 film series (ignoring the cartoon and Rogue One)
Rank | Episode
1. Episode V (Obviously)
So, in other words, I loved it. Just not as much as the originals or Episode VII from a couple of years ago. Or, even as much as Episode III from ~2005.
PS — The first two and last two films ranked are almost indisputable in their positions. Spots 3-6 are highly debatable.
If you read up on the Jar Jar Binks = Darth Plagueis theory it 100% redeems episode I
More people need to know this. And I don't even like SW.
Loved it. Kinda pissed they extended the series at the end, but hey i guess they couldn't pass up another couple hundred million plus blockbusters.
I loved the rey and kylo scenes. It's a very interesting dynamic that they have developed with those two. I was initially confused about the fact that they killed of Snoke but think it is better that way so as diverge even further from the originals in the last film.
The Force Awakens was a shockingly unoriginal movie (A New Hope with a 21st century facelift) that nevertheless was very well executed, delivering plenty of fun.
The Last Jedi made an attempt to be much more original, weaving in multiple disparate moments that on their own were fantastic, but as a whole felt incoherent; they forgot film execution fundamentals, resulting in plenty of tone-deaf moments.
Kylo Ren has a line, in an important scene with Rey, that might as well have been taken verbatim from studio discussions amongst the producers (not saying more to not give away spoilers).
tldr; it was just okay. Not as fun as The Force Awakens, and lacks the dramatic quality of Rogue One.
I think the point of making TFA unoriginal was to preserve the old star wars fandom while building the new one. Old ones would be enticed by callbacks to the old movies, and new ones wouldn't be very familiar with it anyway, so it struck a balance. Naturally, some older fans are going to see it as recycled, but I actually remember watching a video of old star wars fans watching TFA for the first time; there were legit people crying about how nostalgic it felt while getting some fresh perspectives and new life (Rey and Finn) breathed into the saga.
TLJ was definitely more original like you said, but they really tried to do too much. Tbh, they could have completely cut out the Finn/Asian girl stuff, or even Finn in general. Kylo and Rey's storylines was far, far more compelling and they could have spent more time developing the force bond and introducing new force powers.
Who is the loser who went through and gave monkey shit to every single poster?
The people on this website, I swear
I gave SBs to every poster. Merry fucking christmas! (unless ur jewish)
Not a big Star Wars guy at all, but will see it this Friday. Shouldn't be a moral issue whether you liked it or not.
Still not better than Empire, or A New Hope, but better than the others.
Only one thing to say in the case of Star Wars: Learn to put the series to bed at a certain point.
Fucking disney just milking the absolute shit out of the series and bringing it down to the absolute lowest common denominator. If I wanted to see the same basic plot line again and again, I would go see any Marvel movie ever made after 2015.
I don't really have an opinion either way, but Disney was never going to pay that kind of money for the property and then "put it to bed." They believed it was going to make more money.
I was rather disappointed. The structure was largely like episode 5 with some superfluous additional story lines thrown in. Toward the end, they even had to add a line just to try to make up for the crap they knew they'd take from fans about how close that planet was to Hoth. A resistance fighter in a trench facing AT-ATs (hmm, where have I seen that before) tastes a piece of the ground and says, "It's salt". Wow! No shit! Thanks for clarifying that it wasn't snow, otherwise I might have thought it was a rip off of Hoth.
Way too many stupid "jokes" and moments of comic relief. More like things that are comically unexpected but because it's unexpected apparently that makes them funny. It doesn't. They're stupid. What the hell was the point of those ridiculous island birds? How are they beneficial to the story at all? The original movies were serious and had some actual humor when appropriate.
Disney needs to pick an audience. Not market to every conceivable group at the same time.
I have other complaints but they contain spoilers and I frankly don't want to type that much.
To be fair, I didn't hate it, but it was a let-down for me.
As a movie, I enjoyed it. I thought it was well done, visually stunning, and I appreciated all the work that went into it. As a fan of Star Wars, I'm still unsure how I feel about the movie. I definitely need to watch it again to get a better sense of how I felt about things such as the quips and one liners, the pacing, what felt like potshots at older fans, and the entire second act.
Unlike APAE I didn't have an issue with the diversity. I think it's more apparent in today's climate, but that is due to identity politics taking a center stage over the last few years. If I recall, and I need to watch with more clarity, the film passes the Bechdel test as well. Again, this is more apparent today that it would have been years ago. I don't consider it a major ding against the movie though. If it were preachy about it, that would be different.
Much of why I'm torn about the films is that I grew up watching the original trilogy. When the new trilogy came out, it wasn't the same. I just didn't connect with it as I did the originals. It wasn't the same feeling of awe and inspiration; that the characters in the original film were as much iconic as they were legends. Much of Luke's dialogue (including one scene which, if you've seen the movie, you'll know that I'm talking about the prequels), does, in a meta sense, address that. If the TFA was a taste of something familiar, The Last Jedi was an attempt to turn it on its head and show the past for what it is - the past. It made certain scenes far more gut wrenching to watch. Was the dialogue written as a statement to move on from the past? I honestly don't know, and until I see it again, it really makes it hard to be certain, as a fan, whether I liked it or not.
Frieds
I tried to write that as neutrally as possible so as not to offend anyone who felt the diversity piece was preachy, but I hoped the wry line about people assuming future millennia's societies being more homogeneous would give away the fact that I found the diversity refreshing.
o tell you the truth, I didn't think it was preachy at all. I think that you presented a fair and balanced point of view on this. While I appreciated your wry comment on the casting, I also think you read much more into it than I did. It's a Sci/Fi movie and it's one of the few genres where race should have little influence on who plays what character for the most part. Preexisting source material aside (ex. when Marvel introduced Nick Fury in Iron Man, they used Ultimate Nick Fury, which was based on Samuel L. Jackson. As a result, I expected that Nick Fury could be played only by a tall, bald, angry, foul-mouthed, Black man... er... I mean Samuel L. Jackson. The same holds true for other cases where there is source material - it should be taken into consideration when casting someone for the role. For the love of me though, I just don't see Michael Sheen playing a character best described as English, intelligent, and gayer than a tree full of monkeys on nitrous oxide), any time it's a new character that no one has seen before, let the actor or actress stand on their merits. Still, I will wholeheartedly agree that it is part of today's cultural zeitgeist. You don't need to look any further than the significant reliance on identity politics and victimization in the real world to see how can appear to have influenced film. At the same time, when that becomes the focus instead of based on the actual position held or actual characterization, it's easy to come to the conclusion.
Using Holdo, as you mentioned her being the bossy minor character, I don't think it's about gender inclusion and female empowerment at all. Holdo being a bossy female, for example, could be viewed under an SJW lens as a win for feminists, but that's not how I saw it. Personally, I believed that she exerted her authority by showing dominance to ensure that he subordinates would follow. Leia was always viewed as the top dog and everyone followed her implicitly. With Holdo, she was military leader who came in and needed to make a direct statement about her authority as acting commander. Whether Poe liked it or not, Holdo was in charge, and she did what I would expect any military leader would do - exert their authority to lead. Poe's response to her appointment was tantamount to insubordination. She called Poe out on his bullshit to make a point - that sometimes the brash response isn't the best one and that, as a junior officer, he does not necessarily need to know what her plans are. From a gender bias perspective, if a woman does it, that's bossy, while a man doing it would be seen as authoritative. Except, this isn't a gender issue - it's a military issue and the violation of chain of command should be viewed as an authoritative issue regardless of gender. From a broad view, she looks like a strong woman, and thus wins praise from feminists and SJWs, but when looked at from the lens of a military structure, it would be no different than if Holdo was a man and did that.
As an aside, I honestly wish people would stop reading into things that aren't there. In general, I dislike people trying to find subtext where there shouldn't be any so quickly. In 10-15 years, sure, why not. But as soon as the film comes out, I think people are too quick to align things towards their side, whether it's actually there or not.
I would rank it as the 3rd best Star Wars film.
Romantic parts where kinda forced and cringy aka Rey/Kylo Rose/Finn.
Other than that at least it's not good ol Geroge directing it.
Worst part of the movie was people applauding at the end.
Resistance fighters led by General Leia Organa evacuate their base when a First Order fleet arrives. Following an effective but costly counterattack led by Poe Dameron, the Resistance vessels jump into hyperspace to escape, but the First Order pursues them using a tracking device. Kylo Ren, Leia's son, destroys the Resistance support fighters, but hesitates to fire at the lead Resistance ship after sensing his mother's presence. TIE fighters destroy the bridge of the ship, killing several Resistance leaders and incapacitating Leia, leaving Vice Admiral Holdo in command. Disapproving of Holdo's passive strategy, Poe, Finn, BB-8, and mechanic Rose Tico embark on a secret plan to disable the tracking device.
Meanwhile, Rey has arrived on remote Ahch-To with Chewbacca and R2-D2 aboard the Millennium Falcon to recruit Luke Skywalker to the Resistance. Disillusioned by the failures of the Jedi, Luke initially refuses, even after learning of Han Solo's death. Unbeknownst to Luke, Rey and Kylo begin communicating with each other through telepathic visions. Prompted by R2-D2, Luke eventually agrees to teach Rey the ways of the Force. Luke and Kylo give Rey differing accounts of the incident that turned Kylo to the dark side, with Luke confessing that he momentarily contemplated killing Kylo upon sensing that Supreme Leader Snoke had corrupted him, causing Kylo to destroy Luke's emergent Jedi Order in retaliation. Convinced that Kylo can still be redeemed, Rey leaves Ahch-To to confront Kylo without Luke. Luke prepares to burn down the Ahch-To Jedi temple and library, but he encounters Yoda's Force ghost, who destroys the temple himself and encourages Luke to learn from his failure.
Holdo reveals her plan to discreetly evacuate the remaining Resistance members using small transports. Believing her actions to be cowardly and risky, Poe instigates a mutiny. Finn, Rose and BB-8 travel to Canto Bight and acquire the help of the hacker DJ, who says he is able to help them disable the tracking device. They infiltrate Snoke's ship, but are captured by Captain Phasma, though BB-8 manages to escape. Meanwhile, Rey lands on the ship, and Kylo brings her to Snoke, who reveals that he controlled the mental connection between her and Kylo as part of a plan to destroy Luke. Ordered to kill Rey, Kylo instead kills Snoke and works together with Rey to kill Snoke's guards. Kylo invites Rey to rule the galaxy with him, but Rey refuses. Using the Force, they struggle for possession of Anakin Skywalker's lightsaber, which splits in two.
A recovered Leia stuns Poe, allowing the evacuation to begin. Holdo remains on the ship to mislead Snoke's fleet as all others attempt to flee to a nearby old Rebel Alliance base on Crait. However, DJ reveals the Resistance's plan to the First Order, and the evacuation transports are targeted with heavy losses; Holdo sacrifices herself by ramming Snoke's fleet at lightspeed to stop the barrage. Rey escapes in the chaos, while Kylo declares himself new Supreme Leader. BB-8 frees Finn and Rose, who escape after defeating Captain Phasma, and join the survivors of the evacuation on Crait. When the First Order arrives, Poe, Finn, and Rose lead a charge with old speeders. Rey draws the TIE fighters away with the Falcon, while Rose saves Finn from a suicide run against the main enemy cannon, which blasts a hole in the Resistance fortress.
Luke appears and confronts Kylo alone so that the surviving Resistance fighters can escape. Kylo orders the First Order forces to fire on Luke to no effect, then engages Luke in battle himself. Kylo strikes Luke with his lightsaber, only to learn that he has been fighting Luke's Force projection. Luke defiantly tells Kylo that he will not be the last Jedi, while Rey uses the Force to help the remaining Resistance fighters escape via the Falcon. Back on Ahch-To, an exhausted Luke peacefully dies and becomes one with the Force. Leia reassures everyone that the rebellion has all that is needed to rise again. On Canto Bight, one of the children that helped Finn and Rose escape grabs a broom with the Force and gazes hopefully up into space.
boom. saved you guys 13 bucks and an awkward date
You have all been Disnified
Just got out of the theater, went in with no expectations the way I always do. A surprisingly fun night at the movies!
.
this was not just about it being a bad star wars movie, which it was, but a bad movie.
How can you you have two denouments, one where after a big vitory completely destroys the feeling that the characters are in jeopardy.
Too long and too much focus on minor characters which produced minimum outcome. Ever since the Frightners I have never yelled out load in a movie theater(64th and Broadway IMAX), I declare this at best a 6/10. It ruined the franchise for me and made me grow up and stop caring about people.
Here's my perspective. When I first exited the movie, I felt a sense of conflict in deciding whether I liked it or not. I enjoyed several parts of the movie, but something felt off with it, and it took me a little while to effectively verbalize my thoughts. What the movie did well was create several interesting storylines and build up several characters well to highlight some of the struggles a bit better. However, here are my qualms with the movie:
The Kylo Ren/Rey force bond was underdeveloped. I would have liked to see more interaction between the two, and understand the character shifts a bit more. The force bond concept was excellent, and provided an interesting gateway through which we could understand both characters, and yet there were so few interactions between them to develop this. What other potential does this force bond hold? Can they use the force together and increase their powers? Could they perform new force feats? They could literally just pull some force powers/feats from the star wars books if they need inspiration.
Character motivations were muddled. Why did Kylo Ren suddenly betray Snoke, for instance? My head canon allows me to take certain details and visualize Snoke treating Kylo almost like a slave, and as Kylo may have once been fine with it, thinking his master valued him, in the end, his master considered him just as disposable and worthless, so he felt is was justified to betray him. But then why the sudden desire to rule the galaxy? Kylo Ren's motivations and actions barely line up even when forced together. It seemed to make him cartoonishly evil to just turn him into an evil overlord seeking power after taking down Snoke, and killed any sort of redemption that his character development could have provided.
The movie, despite being 2.5 hours, really seemed like it was trying to cram in as much good stuff as possible. However, although there were some excellent dynamics at play here, they felt underdeveloped and overshadowed by weaker ones. For instance, the Finn/Asian girl romance was objectively dumb. She came out of nowhere, her backstory was frankly boring, and nothing hinted towards her being 'in love' with Finn. Even if this all worked out, what would this add to the story at all? We don't need to pair every main character off.
Here are a couple points that just plain confuse me as well that I'm calling bullshit on:
For one, the fact that Finn, despite being a stormtrooper for years in training, is suddenly ok with killing his homeboys with no remorse is moronic. When you're a soldier for years and years, even if you don't like your fellow soldiers, you learn to trust them. He's just cool with killing all his former buddies, not even slightly torn up about it?
How is Rey any match for Kylo Ren? Kylo has trained for years and years to hone his power. Even if Rey has more raw power, in both TFA and TLJ, she has virtually no training in the first and very little in the second. The fact that she's able to match his power is dumb. Even if she can, she's also suddenly good enough with a lightsaber to kill several of the praetorian guard?
Leia surviving the vacuum in space was literally retarded. First of all, asphyxiation should have killed her. Second, she's garbage with her force powers and has zero training whatsoever. If they had to show this feat, they could have at least had someone with incredible force powers like Snoke do it. Leia suddenly ass-pulling this was just not believable.
None of the main 'good guys' died except for Luke? I get they're not going to kill off Finn or Rey. But seriously, Poe or Leia don't die? Hard to believe.
Why did Kylo and Rey barely use the force when fighting the Praetorian guards? Especially Kylo Ren. The force is their greatest advantage, and we barely saw it. For that matter, I would have like to see more of the Force and more/varied force feats other than choking and making things float.
This is on point +1SB
SPOILERS
1.) I think the force bond was developed well enough for this film, they just introduced it.
2.) Kylo killed his own father with almost no hesitation and you're surprised he killed annoying/ domineering Snoke? Not surprised at all. Kylo is the opposite of a "cartoonish" villian (I'd call both Palpatine and Snoke that), he has depth and character conflict. He knows he has a choice and will (has?) CHOOSE evil and the pursuit of power, I love it.
3.) The romance was dumb, agreed, but I disagree that the underdeveloped/ weaker elements overshadowed the strong elements.
1.) How many stormtroopers has Finn killed? In any case he is a true rebel now, this is a minor gripe.
2.) I don't think she is a match (yet), I think Kylo's inner conflict is not allowing him to exhibit his full prowess when battling her, I think some part of him still wants her by his side, even after that rejection in Snoke's throne room.
3.) I didn't like this
4.) I generally agree but there was so much death, albeit to minor characters, that I think I can forgive this.
5.) Agreed, but the resulting saber fight was so epic I can live with it, call it artistic license.
Spoiler Alert
I liked the movie as a whole but am left a bit confused now about the next movie in the series given that the actual villain is dead. In the classic Star Wars movies you had Palpatine who was the main villain and Vader who was there to be more of an enforcer kind of role.
Kylo Ren isn't actually that evil, just misled and fueled by his emotions, you can't really hate him like you would Darth Sidious. Now that Snoke is dead, I wonder what they will do about the situation regarding a lack of a strong villain or antagonist, Kylo Ren doesn't do it.
Kylo will morph into the true villian, which I like. Adam Driver has been great in the role.
It just feels like the b team. I'm not attached to the characters and I'm apathetic to the story line. It feels like low stakes star wars. It lacks depth and it feels hurried.
I guess I can see the "b team" gripe but don't quite understand it, we can't have Yoda, Luke, and Han forever. As for the stakes, to me this was the most high stakes Star Wars film to date.
Yeah, I just didn't buy it. The story line is completely undeveloped and it left me apathetic to the whole thing. Some examples.
Snoke: We have no idea who this guy is, his motivations, the magnitude of his power, his origin, etc. We're supposed to just accept the fact that he's super evil though in two movies that was never really established. He comes and goes. His death didn't illicit any meaningful emotional response beyond minor surprise. I was more moved by the death of Duku (more developed character) and you obviously can't compare it to the death of Palpatine. His hold over Kylo Ren is also a mystery. We really don't understand their relationship.
Kylo Ren: A bit more developed in the second movie but remains a shallow character nonetheless. I also don't understand his motivations/rationale. Okay so Luke tried to kill you in your sleep. Why does that mean you must now kill your parents, the Jedi and take over the galaxy? Why couldn't you just become a rogue Jedi? He's obsessed with Vadar but knows there were two sides to him, good and bad. So why fixated on the bad? Also, why is he suddenly interested in ruling the galaxy? One minute he wants to please Snoke, in the next he wants to rule the galaxy. What is his vision for the galaxy? We don't really know.
Vadar was driven by his need for order, peace and love. This, gradually through a series of events, turned him evil. Context was provided: the Jedi carried out political assassinations; they had a rigid ideology but were hypocritical in many circumstances and they cherry picked certain facts/aspects of the force to support their bias. You could understand Vadar's struggle. Luke was driven by the legacy of his father and for revenge. You always thought he could turn to the dark side but he had friends/a series of characters that kept him good.
The point is that Luke and Vadar were deep characters that you could understand. Kylo Ren isn't. I don't understand this kid at all.
Rey: What do I need to say about her that hasn't already been said? She's the superman of the Star Wars universe. She does good for the sake of doing good. You don't know why she does it. She's just intrinsically good. This is the most boring type of character. Completely one-dimensional. Also, she comes from a no-name family, has limited training but somehow ends up among the most powerful individual in the history of the galaxy. Why is this the case? Vadar was the chosen one who had decades of direct training. Luke was Vadar's offspring and trained with Yoda. Her story line is just completely decoupled from the rest of the universe.
EDIT:
I could go on but the point is that I need to understand a character in order to feel something about them. I don't want to accept that a character is evil or good without understanding why. I need to relate. We're two movies in and the context still isn't provided. Not even close. The third movie should be the resolution but they've done a terrible job framing the story.
Watched it yesterday and I loved the film, but a few concerns. SPOILERS:
How I rank the films: 1.) A New Hope 2.) The Empire Strilkes Back 3.) The Last Jedi 4.) Return of the Jedi 5.) Revenge of the Sith 6.) Rogue One 7.) The Force Awakens 8.) Attack of the Clones 9.) The Phantom Menace
Many people who hate this film are either nostalgaia obsessed fanboys (I'll say this is the majority of people who hate the film) or the fuck bois online worried about the fact that women/ minorities seem to drive this new trilogy - pathetic. There are legitimate gripes to be had without whining about the fact that Rey is a chic.
Who was Snoke? Where did he come from? What was he doing during the events of the OT? What was he doing during the Clone Wars? The Rule of Two says there can only be two Sith at a time. So what was Snoke doing when Palpatine and Vader were alive? Where did the First Order come from and what's their actual goal? Why couldn't the New Republic stop them? In a plot-driven series these sorts of questions can't be ignored. It would be like not giving the backstory and motivations of Magneto. Disney doesn't do villians anymore. They just need excuses to get the good guys doing good things in order to sell toys. On the other hand Kylo Ren is the most compelling character in these movies however I don't think he can even be called a villian at this point. Yes he killed Han but that action was essentially forgotten in this movie. The other characters bore the shit out of me. The people in the Resistance are in the Resistance just because. The people in the First Order are in the First Order just because. There's just no motivation spelled out for anyone.
SPOILERS
The Snoke question is extremely valid, completely agree, we need a backstory on him. I think Ren is definitely a villian, just not a one-note like Snoke or Palpatine.
It's pretty obvious that they pulled all of this out of their a$$ to sell tickets. The Disney offerings thus far, w/ the exception of Rogue One which was actually watchable, have been photocopies of the original trilogy. The plot points you mention exist only because they mirror those of the original trilogy, not because anything of consequence warranting them has actually occurred (or was considered when setting up these films).
That's fair, still better than the prequels though. Llet's be serious, The Last Jedi is an improvement on every single one of the prequel films, in fact only Revenge of the Sith can even hold a candle to it. Force Awakens is also much better than episode 1 and 2.
Do not see this movie in theaters unless you want your experienced ruined by manchildren clapping and talking throughout.
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