Are MSF's / MMS the absolute biggest scams out there given the change in IBD recruiting?

How can you even recruit for a FT position if 95% of FT recruiting is complete before your program even starts?

Also, if post senior year and pre-MSF you want apply for a SA stint, it would be very sketchy because you dont even know if you are accepted until like November/December of senior year, when most SA recruiting is complete. Essentially, you are a senior applying for SA with no guarantee of admission to an MSF. Another big fault with these programs is that a lot of them start in late summer also. So how could you do a pre-msf internship if you have to be in class?

I think 5 years ago when banks werent doing FT recruiting in summer and it was still early fall it would make sense. Nowadays, whats the point?

Comments (19)

 
5/29/17

Because IB is the only reason people do an MSF/MMS.

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5/29/17

If your logic is this simple I'd advise against any graduate program. Hooked on phonics might be better.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

 
5/29/17
TNA:

If your logic is this simple I'd advise against any graduate program. Hooked on phonics might be better.

whats wrong with my logic?

 
5/29/17

1) MMS/MSF is a graduate degree, not an IB placement agent.

2) not everyone is interested or seeks an IB position.

3) there are countless MM, boutique and other IB shops that do not follow NYC IBD recruiting practices.

4) not everyone program starts in fall

5) IBs recruit in the fall and you can easily apply through OCR even if you don't have a GPA at your masters program.

6) your statement is easily disproven by looking at placement reports from all the major programs last year and the year before. Students from all programs land IBD as well as other positions.

7) internships- you'd do it at smaller shops where you'd most likely be unpaid and have flexibility. I did three unpaid internships and every year in nearly every program others do as well.

That's what's wrong with your logic.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

 
5/29/17
TNA:

1) MMS/MSF is a graduate degree, not an IB placement agent.

2) not everyone is interested or seeks an IB position.

3) there are countless MM, boutique and other IB shops that do not follow NYC IBD recruiting practices.

4) not everyone program starts in fall

5) IBs recruit in the fall and you can easily apply through OCR even if you don't have a GPA at your masters program.

6) your statement is easily disproven by looking at placement reports from all the major programs last year and the year before. Students from all programs land IBD as well as other positions.

7) internships- you'd do it at smaller shops where you'd most likely be unpaid and have flexibility. I did three unpaid internships and every year in nearly every program others do as well.

That's what's wrong with your logic.

1) true
2) true
3) which MMs?
4) Vandy - Aug 1, MIT - June, WUSTL - early summer
5) given those start dates, what would you do for your internship experience for FT recruiting
6) majority of IBD are top 3 programs i listed above, and then its only like 20%
7) you did 3 unpaids during your MSF? you didnt have class all day?

 
5/29/17

None of these programs are scams, but I think that many applicants are not doing their research when applying. A one-year masters program has never and will never make up for a mediocre undergrad GPA and no internships when it comes to FT IB recruiting. To be fair, the universities are not spinning their MSFs as ways to break into IB, rather, if you look at any of their websites, they spin these programs as a way to deepen one's knowledge of finance, which I think is 100% accurate. It's not the university's fault that the students who think the MSF is their golden ticket to IB did not do any research, the same way that unranked MBA programs are not responsible for the students who thought a UT San Antonio MBA was on par with an HBS MBA.

If you are a senior who struck out during FT recruiting, your best bet would be to start looking at boutiques. Try to get a senior-year IB internship under your belt and then start reaching out to boutiques to see if they need someone for FT. Your time will be better spent doing that than applying to one-year masters programs, but again, it's not the schools fault if you ignore my advice.

 
5/29/17

I largely agree, but not with the GPA point. I've seen people with weak UG GPAs do very well in their masters and it makes up for it. End of the day grad school is harder than UG and recruiters realize this.

But you're correct that kids think an MSF is a slam dunk ticket for IBD. They then fail to prepare (which is often times why they sought to do a masters before) and then complain about programs. I've been saying for a while now that interviews are a better Indicator of a programs value than placements.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

 
5/29/17

You're definitely correct. I guess my point was that an MSF is not a way to make up for a lack of past preparedness.

Interesting point regarding using interviews as a better metric than placements. I'd agree with that too, just never thought about that myself.

 
5/29/17

Agree fully. People need a true self assessment before they look at grad school as a panacea. Sadly many students fall into the same old routine and only get motivated when they graduate without a job.

Masters in Finance HQ - The #1 site for everything related to the MSF degree!
MSFHQ

 
8/14/17

I actually think some of these programs ARE scams but the people who choose to go there are semi-clueless. Who in their right mind is going to pay 90k+ for tuition & housing for some of these programs?

 
5/29/17

I completely agree with your point. As far as IB is concerned, MSF/MMS are increasingly becoming less relevant. Fortunately, there are other channels beyond IB, though they're generally less desirable.

"Elections are a futures market for stolen property"

 
8/14/17

I like the angry tone of this post lol. It's really only worth it once you've LITERALLY run out of options. You'd be better served networking in most cases and saying fuck the BB or bust mentality. There are a few places that are pretty solid that do not hire interns and only do FT, these are your best shots.

 
8/18/17

yes...yes they are. source: I graduated from an MSF program in may; my class had 0% job placement after being told repeatedly throughout the process we would be placed wherever we want.

 
8/18/17

so they actually used the verbage "you will be placed wherever you want?"

 
8/18/17

A giant rip, my program leaves in marketing material about heavy placement at Goldman, and every prospective student I spoke to had 5 yrs of consulting or some manner of corp fin/ public accounting exposure. Shady marketing all around.

tl;dr - Babson College is garbage.

Things are so bad, some kids even reached out to urp Tobin & Co.

 
8/18/17

More like the students are probably just dumb. Lol at Babson is garbage. Lol 0% job placement. People's analysis or thoughts or believing in claims are funny.

 
8/18/17

Well Babson did try to expel a kid for having a Trump flag.... so it's not the cut throat business school it used to be.

 
8/18/17

They did axe half of the Graduate CCD due to abysmal job placement, across all programs. Found it rather amusing to see junior accountant roles being beyond my qualifications, despite possessing a CPA. Toss in the poor food and free bubble-wrap & play-dough, successful school for sure.

 
8/18/17

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