I graduated from an MBA program in 2017. Over my summer I interned at a BB but didn't get an offer. No real good reason other than the MD's didn't know me well enough. So I left on good terms.
Problem was, that threw me into the lateral bucket, because all the other banks filled their 2017 class before I found out I wasn't getting an offer. I had one 2017 class interview and didn't get anything, only later to find out they didn't actually hire anyone from the process.
So I've spent the past year and a half recruiting. Lateral positions were really tough to recruit for, considering I was still an MBA student, though my past work in lower-MM PE pre-MBA and networking got me some interviews. Unfortunately nothing materialized.
Now I'm at a no-name middle market bank. I guarantee nobody here has heard of the name it's that small. Everyone basically was like "go there and get some deals done then rerecruit once bonuses go out". Well, here I am and it's proving extremely challenging to get anywhere.
My school has a great network in banking, and I've reached out to a lot of people and spoken with them. But when it comes down to it, I get cut immediately. I don't even get a first round interview. Additionally, almost all the roles I find get filled internally or they've started the interview process within a day or two of posting it.
I'm guessing this is because I'm at a tiny bank, so this is really, really frustrating. I mean is this really just based on the name of the bank I'm at? Because that's what it seems like. I thought working in PE for two years, getting all that modeling and deal experience, would be an asset, but it seems that all anyone cares about is if I worked at a firm with a recognizable name. Frustrating, but not surprising.
What would you guys recommend I do here?
How small is your current bank and what kind of deals do they do? Are you getting paid there?
25-30 employees. My group is all over the place. We do all sectors. Yes, I'm getting paid, but very under market. Hours are incredibly relaxed, though.
so you're there for about 7 months now? btw 20-30 is no small bank, most no-name boutiques are
Is it a top / MBA business schools">M7 mba program? Or like a top 15-20? Also, is your pre-mba background solely the lower mm PE shop, or did you also have prior banking experience before PE?
Top 10, very strong banking presence. Pre-MBA background is 2 years of private equity, and 3 years in design engineering at a manufacturing company, so no banking experience beforehand but did deals at the PE shop.
FWIW when I first came in here I helped with reviewing SPA markups and working on those negotiations with our MD so I know the deal process well based on being involved in every step of our deals at the PE firm.
EDIT: Also I have very strong modeling skills because I did all the modeling when I was in PE. I interviewed for a PE role last year (came down to me and one other person), and they said I did better on the modeling test than anyone that's taken it (3 hour LBO model with full revenue build, DTL/DTA's, and distribution waterfall to LP/GP). Unfortunately banking interviews don't allow you to communicate that like PE interviews do.
EDIT 2: I also have two references at megafunds, mid-senior level people that are huge advocates for me.
Not sure why I'm mentioning all of this, I guess I just don't know how to translate this to get banks interested.
Based on all of this I’m surprised you’re not getting looks or interviews. The only thing I can think of is that you’re falling through the cracks in terms of timing, or you’re going up against folks that are already at bigger banks and have connections with the team. I’m assuming given you have people giving you positive feedback that it’s not a case of you being strong on technicals but awkward in conversations.
Actually you mentioned you had a PE interview last year and that you have supporters at MFs/reputable places. Is it possible for them to make connections for you at their shops or others? Have they done so/has it resulted in anything. If someone from MF called up their buddies at various banks to intro someone they like, you’d at least get a coffee or two, if not an interview...
Did you start in PE right after undergrad? Also, is there any reason why you are pursuing banking post-MBA rather than PE considering you've had two years in PE?
No, I worked as an engineer for a few years before going into PE. I'm pursuing banking because I don't want to stay in lower-MM PE, and I thought having a combination of PE experience and working on large deals would translate well. I've had people in industry tell me that should work, too, so that's what I've been trying to focus on.
Additionally, as silly as this sounds, most PE firms I've tried recruiting with discount me because I wasn't an IBD Analyst and are concerned about my modeling skills. Additionally, headhunters and PE shops don't recognize my firm so that's a huge ding too.
Are you saying that PE firms discount you because you didn't have the two years of IB analyst experience that most people have to normally get into PE? I do have to say it is kind of interesting how you were able to make the jump from engineering to PE. Were you an engineer for one of the PE firm's portfolio companies?
I have a little bit of a different perspective than others here. I'm not surprised you aren't getting looks, because there are a lot of red flags you need to address. Let's think about from the banks perspective:
1) You did buyside pre-MBA but then banking post MBA. This is unorthodox. There are a few people who do it every year but it's always a tougher sell that you actually want to be a banker and not that it's a back up plan. You are considered a higher risk to leave at the first opportunity than others. But Good for you, you overcame this stereotype to land your summer gig.
2) But then with that technical experience, you didn't get a summer return offer. This is a HUGE stain on your background. You had a technical background and yet you couldn't leap over the relatively low bar to get a return offer like most of your peers did. This has ruined many people's banking careers before it started, it's just a huge red flag. It doesnt matter if it was luck, people will think you either suck, weren't willing to put in the effort or couldn't get along/play the game.
3) Then you still weren't able to full time recruit for a reputable shop, partly, I'm sure, because of the above two points. But the more people that pass on you, the more that it feels like I am taking a huge risk by taking you on.
I'm not saying these things to discourage you, but you have to understand the context to figure out how to overcome your deficiencies. Right now, on paper and without knowing you, you seem like a HUGE risk with clear indicators that some combination of your heart isn't into banking/You can't get along with others/you don't do good work/etc is true. You need to be able to proactively address these points to put people at ease, not avoid them like an elephant in the room.
Also, with that said, you need to be strategic about how you lateral. First, exhaust your network of people and stay up to date with them every few months. Let them know you are looking and that you are doing a lot of work in X space. Second, narrow your focus to places you have relatable experience (What are the best deals you've closed? Position yourself as an expert in that industry/product). Third, focus on potentially well respected MMs at first and then make a second jump. I don't know a single EB or top BB lateral from an unknown shop at the associate level. It's usually MM/lower tier BB->Top tier BB or BB->EB. I'm sure in the lower BB it happens too, so that is a possibility as well (DB has struggled to keep people, for example). Also try to reach out to recruiters regularly to keep you up to date on their openings.
Hope that helps, keep at it.
Everything you said I think is right. I hope the PE thing isn't an issue anymore given that I'm actually working in banking now. And the no offer thing is definitely true but whenever I get in front of someone and they ask me the question, I can assuage their concerns. What helps is that my group has been supportive, I have a bunch of references over there, and I even interviewed at another group in the firm because they supported me and told that group to bring me in.
I wasn't able to recruit for a reputable shop because they were all full by the time I found out. I only was able to find one interview at an elite boutique and that firm didn't even hire anyone out of that process.
I can't be strategic with lateraling because if you get that specific your job opportunities you pursue narrow FAST. I understand what you're saying but I'm looking to lateral ASAP not in a few years.
My next step, I think, if this doesn't pan out is to pursue good T3 banks even though I don't necessarily want to do that.
I've gotten some recruiters at good firms in my pocket so I'm going to keep that up, too. A recruiter at a top BB just told me about an opening in a group there that they haven't started a process for, and I've had a ton of support there, too, so I'm hoping thatll at least lead to an interview. I have a very strong background in the sector, too.
Continue to keep up with the recruiters. If a spot opens up, hopefully you will be the first one they will think of.
How specifically are you keeping up with the recruiters? Do you send them an email every once in a while asking about opportunities?
Khayembii Just curious, why did you leave PE for the MBA? Was it a structured two-and-out program? Was lateraling ever an option after your two years? Would be interested to hear your thought process and if you would still have gone for the MBA knowing what you know now.
The firm's Partners I worked for I got to know really well and they were extremely kind with bringing me on and training me. They taught me everything. I was their first employee and they hired me because it gave them an opportunity to see what having an employee would be like without the commitment because they knew I was leaving for school after two years. We agreed on that before I started.
I probably could've lateraled to a different lower-MM firm but I didn't want to stay in the lower-MM.
Keep your chin up man. Trying to get jobs outside of normal 'recruiting cycles' is a bitch in any part of finance. It doesn't matter if you are 10x smarter/more skilled/ more experienced than the people that are just following the typical path. Its because so much of these critical processes are outsourced to process people (HR/recruiters) so that the producers can focus on work
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