Advice needed, would be very grateful if anyone could lend some advice.
Received two IBD Associate offers from top BB (the likes of MS with good deal flow) in Singapore, and another from bottom BB (the likes of DB with good deal flow) in London. Not sure which one to pick given my long-term plan is to stay in the U.K.
Pros (Singapore)
- Singapore IB pays a much higher base salary (c.25%)
- The name of these banks are much better than my offer in London
Cons (Singapore)
- Extremely long working hours. Constant 2am finish and weekend work
- Singapore perceived to be a second or third tier destination which might prevent me from moving back to the U.K.
Would probably suggest you still in the UK if your plan is to be there long term, but could be wrong. If you don't mind me asking, what's your background? More specifically, how did you manage to land a position in Singapore (ie. are you Singaporean studying in UK, UK studying in Singapore etc). Curious how you broke into Singapore
I’m British but also a Singaporean Permanent Resident, that’s why I can work there
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Maybe I’m too harsh on them lol
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For life experience, I'd actually recommend Singapore if you've already got experience in the UK. Don't think you'd struggle to come back to UK
That was the one of the reasons why I applied but just a little worried that my experience there wont be transferrable back to the U.K.
I think there's enough demand for good associates/VPs that you'll be able to move from Singapore back to London within the next 2-3 years if you wanted to. I would take Singapore for the stronger brand and opportunity to get international experience. The higher pay and lower taxes will also be a boon for your personal finances in the short-term. I don't think you will get 'stuck' unless you decide to spend a very long time there.
I’m just worried that my CV would be automatically rejected in the future as i won’t be physically in the U.K. - but guess I can always move back first then start looking for job
while probably not a main consideration, Singapore's tax rate and cost of living is way lower... you'll probably pay less than 15% effective tax rate and as long as you don't buy a car you'll live like a king
But the weather might kill me 😅😂
Singapore. The only thing you will miss out is super mega deals as deal size is generally smaller here, but Singapore is not 2nd tier city at all and have much lower living cost than London, the pay delta will be greater than you think. Unless you have some kind of preference for London, opportunities in Finance in Singapore is abound too so don't worry.
Though I am curious what you mean by long working hours, you're saying the chaps in UK don't work till 2am?
Nah, I'm at a top mid-market in London. We normally finish around 11pm and rarely work on weekends. Associates at my firm tend to leave before 9pm.
I can't speak for all banks, but most of my mates working in London BB finish at a similar time (ie 11pm).
There will be times we're in the office until 4am and have to work on weekends but occasions like this are very rare - so rare that I can count on both hands.
Whereas in Singapore, I know everyone works until 2am with constantly weekend work - that's probs why they pay slightly higher than London in terms of base
Well fuck me
Lucky - my London BB was nothing like that LOL
damn nice. Don't y'all also get like 5 weeks off a year? Do people actually take them or are they considered pussies.
At a European BB in London on one of the "better" teams, and the analysts/associates/VPs (due to ASO shortage) in these times are working 9am - 2am with consistent weekend work. Due to the staffing squeeze and amount of live deals, saw an MD try to do comps last week and a Director running a model which was pretty funny ngl.
Our American counterparts are having better lifestyles than we are at the moment. Only point is that the LDN experience could be what is described by Newbie92 or it could be worse than the avg American one (do your diligence!)
Sounds like you're leaning towards Sg so far. Just want to add what I know as this doesn't seem mentioned.
While emerging market/ companies can be cool, be aware that banks in Sg may have a much tight focus on some industries (eg. Real estate), which may or may not be what you want.
Also being in Sg largely means covering SEA than other parts of Asia. This is a fundamental diff b/w Sg and HK. If you want to be good, building you knowledge/language/connection around distinct niche markets like Indonesia/ malaysia/ Vietnam is generally required. You may not stay long enough to feel this pain but should def consider how much of these are transferrable/ beneficial for your long term goal.
And another big thing is exits. As you mentioned, you prob want to move back to UK so this may not be that relevant. But still you'll notice soon how tiny the PE market is here. This again may not be ideal for your long term goal.
Any data on SG bonuses?
Top BB is around 60% - 80% so slightly lower than London
Actually I’m more leaning towards London. I genuinely think the culture here is much better than Singapore- well we have to pick the best amongst the worst
Singapore is at best tier 2. Long-term trends also don't favor it. As the larger countries in SEA become more developed they will no longer be willing to outsource their capital markets to another country. Hong Kong for all its recent warts still has a massive domestic market that isn't going away any time soon. Also Singapore you are going to be at a disadvantage compared to those with local connections (within SEA) and language skills.
I tend to agree with your comment on Singapore being a Tier 2 destination for IB. The country itself is alright but the working culture there is a bit old fashioned. IBThe country itself is alright but the working culture there is a bit old fashioned. In terms of language skills, that’s not an issue as I was born in Singapore and am able to speak the local language.
The local language in Singapore is English lol, what do you mean?
Mandarin and Malay
lol. i have worked on four different trading floors and i can assure you no one fucking speaks malay, get out of here
Does Singapore really pay in line with NYC gross?
Base is in line, bonus is slightly below. But after tax is definitely way above
I have not worked in London but I worked in both HK / SG before.
One thing to take into account is the workload in SG is crazy (even vs HK). Most of the stuff are unnecessarily demanding as well in SG.
I think it is a tough call tbh. In fact I have been thinking moving to London just for better work life balance in Asia (my ultimate goal is corp dev after trying out PE and hating it). London seems to have better corp dev opportunities and better hours. Just the hourly wage probably is half of HK/SG after taking into account of lower base and higher tax.
Anyway, I tried applying several positioning in London with BB IBD experience in Asia. No interview at all. Not sure if it is because of the lack of networking or if it is just because I am applying too few positions.
That's exactly what I'm worried about. Singapore is not NYC / Paris, recruiters in London just won't look at your CV even it's a good brand name - especially when the applicants are not physically in London / Europe. The only caveat is that I have a British passport so I can always move back then try to find a job here.
Also, I’m fully aware of the culture / working hours in Singapore, the whole society has a bit of a slave-driving mentality - although it might has some merit in it.
Not trying to be a racist here, but are you caucasian? Actually I also have British passport due to family ties and I mentioned "having unrestricted rights to work in UK without visa sponsorship" unfortunately that did not help much. Things maybe easier for you if you are caucasian with previous UK experience though.
Is the workload in HK actually that bad as well?
HK hours are much better.
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I've not worked in Singapore but all my friends (>5) told me even at the Associate level: Monday - Thursday is constant 2am; Friday you may get to leave at a reasonable time 6/7/8pm, but weekends you definitely have to work one day and occasionally both days (chances > 50%).
Singapore has a really bad work/life balance with old fashioned (disrespectful) management - A Singaporean banker working in London was asked to leave the firm as she was shouting at an intern, she probs mistaken London as Singapore and brought all her bad habits overseas. IBs in Singapore are lagging miles behind the US/Europe in terms of culture, and are even pale in comparison to HK. This is the main (possibly the only) deterring factor that stop me from moving there (more of the culture rather than the hours). I hope someone proves me wrong so that I can persuade myself to move there!
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Would you say HK banking hours are similar to SG's? Like constant 2am
Legit fired immediately?
UK so you can build your network.
I did a US BB IBD internship in Singapore and in HK (covid made it such that my offer is in HK but I work with the SG office). Also worked at Jefferies London IB (many categorize it as an MM but others disagree, so I'm gonna just name the bank).
Here are my two cents: can confirm that BAML and MS in SG frequently work till 4-5am (2am is an understatement) at least 6 days a week (7 days are common too) as an associate/analyst. HK is similar, but till 3am/6-7 days a week.
Back in London I was frequently clocking out before 0030, 5 days a week.
WLB is undoubtedly better in London than anywhere else in Asia/US. No contest at all. Pay wise, the taxes in Hk and SG are unparalleled, but you don't have time to spend them at all.
PE market is insanely small and highly competitive in SG. London PE is competitive as well but on a different angle.
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