Blue collar kid heading to target... Why do most wannabe IB students wash out during college?
I'm headed to a non-Ivy target and I'm attracted to IB as it's competitive (keep me aiming high in college), great money (I'd immediately make 2x my parents), live in a major dynamic city, and sets me up well for anything (even if I segue into different industry/field). But it seems most IB students wash out during college and end up in a different, lower comp direction. Is it mostly like a saving face thing due to not having the grades and/or inability to get a decent offer... or they want to justify slacking off a bit... or intimidated by cutthroat environment... or do most start to find it genuinely unappealing for various valid reasons? I guess I'm just trying to figure out how to understand mental pitfalls, to avoid getting rattled or rationalizing not being into it anymore, if that makes sense.
In most situations, students can’t do what needs to be done (grades, self-study, etc.) to get to the next level. Everyone likes the idea of getting a job in IB, but it’s a fantasy rather than something they put the work in for.
Dude, I'm going to be completely honest with you. There are LOTS of hot girls in college that go out and party ALL OF THE TIME. Every Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, you can find parties going on during the day and night. It's hard to resist. I talk a lot on this site about getting girls, but I'm just letting you know right now it's kind of hard to focus on school with all of the temptations of drinking/partying/women who really don't care about LBOs.
Banking sucks and is very competitive. Half the kids see the lifestyle and how boring the work is and then drop and focus on something else (no shame in that, better to know earlier and devote time and resources to what you're more interested in). Of the half who try, a lot don't get good looks, figure out they don't want it that badly, or fuck their chances up because of something dumb.
Of the group who get offers, a bunch can't ultimately handle it or aren't incentivized to keep on slogging. You're from a blue-collar kid so you're probably more inclined to work 100hrs for what's good money but after rent, some retail therapy, etc, isn't ultimately that much to end with. But if you're rich or don't care as much about money, it becomes pretty hard to motivate yourself to wake up at 8 on 3-4 hrs of sleep for the 6th straight night while all of your buddies are hitting the gym, making happy hours, and going rock climbing.
Look - don't start trying to convince yourself into banking at all costs. Let your mind run its natural progression and let your experiences and thinking lead you to the best path for you. Banking isn't the only way, don't listen to these dumb cucks on here crowing about the prestige and paychecks. I've done it for 3 years now and some of my friends who went into consulting, grad school, tech, other stuff are way happier and making plenty of money with the time and lifestyle to actually enjoy their 20s.
Just relax, you're going to be a fucking freshman. When I was a freshman, I thought I was going to work in Washington or for some NGO or something. Then I thought it was law school, then consulting, then I ultimately settled on banking. Now I'm thinking again about consulting or corp dev. Life has cycles - embrace them don't silence them because of what some people on a forum think or say.
Solid. +1
Thanks man. But you really think college kids into investment banking skews towards non-rich? Obviously this is anecdotal, but a few of my legit wealthy slightly older friends are gunning for GS MS JPM offers right now - and I don't know another blue collar kid who even knows what i-banking is, so that's surprising, to me.
I certainly understand plans change, you grow, you mature, value different things. If it's genuine, that's fine. But I assumed there were less valid face saving excuses, is all. Similarly, I assume, to all the pre-med kids who want to go to medical school and wash out for various wishy-washy reasons/excuses.
I just want to aim high and avoid justifying or rationalizing lowering my goals, if that makes sense. I assume it's VERY easy to do and I was trying to understand where those typically stem from.
Here's the thing that most kids don't get: deciding that a career path or job or anything isn't worth the hours, sacrifices, etc necessary isn't a pathetic excuse for anything. It's legitimate prioritization and often requires a lot of courage and introspection. High-achievers are often biased to think that anyone who isn't willing to work the longest hours, do the most work, give up the most personally, is just lazy or "wishy-washy." Some people just want something different out of life - that's their prerogative.
If you're this obstinate, maybe you will just gun for IB and push the doubts out like I did during college and recruiting. But you know what, eventually the doubts come back. You can't suppress them forever. Now I fucking hate my job and am incredibly depressed. I wish I had "washed out" and pursued a field that I loved and was really fucking good at (I was published a bunch in undergrad for IR and PoliSci).
As long as you're being honest with yourself about what you truly want out of your life in 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, then no decision you make is less "genuine." Just relax man and don't be so rigid in your thinking. You're 18, I'm 25. Neither of us knows shit.
In terms of the socioeconomic background of IB kids - it's changing because the work is harder than it used to be, it's more competitive to get jobs, favor plays less, and the money is worse at the top. A lot of rich kids still get in but fewer than in the past and they typically wash out a lot earlier. A lot don't even make it out of SA, very, very few stay past 2 years. They just don't need the fuckery of IB and eventually, most give it up. But that's just what I've seen so who knows.
It depends on how you look at it. Upper- and upper-middle class folks will have the connections and the setup in order to get into banking easier. The setup can be anything from private schools, 'prestigious' extracurriculars or lots of volunteer work to round themselves out, daddy buying Harvard a library, the list goes on. Simply put, it goes to show that investment banks sometimes value the 'who you know' rather than the 'what you know,' and that there are a lot more loopholes to exploit by being in the upper echelons of society.
That isn't to say what you know is useless - there are minimum requirements for banking for a reason. Going to a target school certainly helps, but the grades need to be well past a 3.4 GPA to mean much of anything. Since you mentioned that your family is blue-collar, the feel that some bankers might get is that you won't be afraid to roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty, and that you'll have the mindset to power through any work that they send your way. That isn't always learned - it's innate in a way. And to that end you need to communicate that however possible. That's an advantage on your end for sure, especially if you can grab some strong recommendations along the way.
And, also, do enjoy your 20s. In college, fill out your applications early, prep for interviews, and as soon as your recruiting season ends, live. It's the last long period of freedom you'll have until after you finish working. For example, I'm going to Oktoberfest in Munich and ASOT in Utrecht this next school year. The pre-banking work-life balance is just as important as it is after you break in. In terms of mentality, don't be afraid of rejection, because if you are, eventually you'll just end up giving up and washing out like plenty of others. Do well in school, live your life, and you'll find your way, even if you don't end up in IBD.
Currently at a non-Ivy target known for being a hot bed for IB and NYC finance recruiting. After spending a few years here and going through recruiting, my thoughts on why kids filter out of IB are two-fold:
Just because a school is a target, doesn't mean everyone or even a good amount of kids get BB IB internships/FT offers. It simply means firms come on campus and heavily recruit from those schools, but the spots are still heavily limited to an extent. Additionally, just because you can get past the resume screen and have a target school on your resume, the superdays are still as competitive as can be and at that point, it really makes very little difference what school you went to. I feel this contributes to a lot of what you might be seeing, with target school kids not getting into IB BB and ultimately pivoting to other industries. Simply put, going to a target makes it that much easier, but at the end of the day, it's still incredibly difficult to land these opportunities.
As you and others have said, recruiting, regardless of school, takes a lot of work. You have to balance a full course load (and possible school-year/summer internships) with prepping for interviews, networking, and generally just remaining focused on recruiting AND keeping up your grades. It's rough to go through. I'm speaking from experience that in the context of college stress and experiences, preparing for finals and finishing papers, while also cramming prep guides at 2am in the library is a horribly stressful experience (again, relative to what a lot of college students may face in their 4 years). A lot of kids realize that if IB isn't something they're gung-ho about, this kind of stress just isn't worth it. In addition to already going to a target school where a number of companies from various industries already come on campus, a lot of kids just don't see it as valuable to go through that stress when they can live a more traditional college life and still end up with great job prospects outside of IB.
I may be echoing a lot of what has already been said here, but I just felt my perspective (coming from a similar socioeconomic background) of being at the same type of school with a similar approach might be valuable. Feel free to PM me if you want to speak further. Happy to help alleviate any concerns or offer any advice.
I am a currently at an Ivy target and I can't count the number of people I met freshmen year who said they wanted to do IB. 4 years later as a senior about to graduate in May, I'd say only probably 10% are actually headed to IB. Most have either gone the corporate route (like HR) or doing something all together. From my experience, it really comes down to 3 big reasons which all essentially connect to each other. 1) People are attracted to the thought of working in IB and all the perks of it (i.e. money) but they are not willing to put work into it (i.e. network, cold emails, etc.) 2) People get bogged down by the temptations of college life. Most are away from parental supervision for the first time and they try to recreate what they think college is suppose to be. The "weekend" soon turns into thursday, friday, saturday, and sunday. They start to skip class, fail exams, which ultimately results in low GPAs and lack of motivation to ever network and prep for interviews. 3) Some assume that target schools have it easy when it comes to recruiting. Sure, that might be the case because there are more alumni and banks host info sessions and stuff like that but there are only so many spots so there will be competition regardless. If you want to do IB, you gotta have both the willingness to grind in order to get the job.
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